Let's have some fun - Redrafting the 2017 draft

Discussion in 'Personnel moves' started by biltalent, Nov 6, 2017.

  1. biltalent

    biltalent Well-Known Member

    Because the Kings are struggling on the court I thought it would be fun to revisit the 2017 NBA draft and see what the decisions are that KF members would make looking back from today. Trade ideas have already came up in recent days so I thought why not take hypothetical gm-ing one step further and go back to the draft?

    Of course we now have the benefit of being able to incorporate SL, training camp and early season impressions. So I don't intend this to become a FO-bashing thread but a fun one where we can exchange thoughts.
    I value a lot of guys opinion around here so it is nice to be able to get your guys reading on that and learn from that. :)

    Do you still take De'Aaron Fox at #5 or would you prefer someone else? Do you trade down from #10 to #15 and #20 with Portland or do you stay at #10? Whom do you take? Whom do you take with our high secound round pick, that is at #34?
  2. gil renard

    gil renard Well-Known Member

    Tatum was the best player in the draft, a shame because we would have kept the #3 pick if not for dear leader Vlade. Fox wasn't a bad pick though...I rated him over Fultz and Ball tbh.
  3. allrightythen

    allrightythen Well-Known Member

    Who is to say we still get the third pick if we don't make that trade? I think that trade was the impetus for several other deals later on that shaped the team which determined draft position. We don't make that trade who knows where we end up.
  4. dude12

    dude12 Well-Known Member

    Does Markannen move up in the draft? He's been very good but so has most of those guys at the top.
  5. kingsfan1984

    kingsfan1984 Well-Known Member

    Still good with Fox at 5. In a few years he still looks tto have good odds of being the top pg from the class.

    Would still do the trade. However, instead of jackson at 15, with hindsight package the 15th for 2 late 1st round picks and select Brooks and Kuzma. Trade buddy hield to utah and select D. Mitchells. Buy the 2nd rounder and pick Bell.
    Trade WCS to Atlanta and select Collins.
    Still pick Giles and mason

    Bogdan/D. Mitchel
    Jimbob, Nokidding and King Baller like this.
  6. ockingsfan

    ockingsfan Well-Known Member

    I'm still good with D'Aaron Fox.

    And I think if we would had picked #3, we would had drafted Fox there too.

    We never had any other top 5 players in for workouts and I think Vlade wanted to pick someone who really wanted to be a King.

    This was a point guard heavy draft and I think it was important to come away with a great point guard, which I think we did.

    At the top of the 2018 draft are some very good Small Forward prospects, including Porter, Luka, Bagley and Bridges.

    I think we get a top 5 pick and we will land our franchise Small Forward in the 2018 draft. :)

    I'm fine with the upside of Giles at 20, but wish we would had taken Kuzma at 15, but who would had known he would be this good? Very few people I think had him this impactful.
  7. King Baller

    King Baller Well-Known Member

    That is a good use of what we have learned so far since the draft. Those things look good now. It will be interesting to see them play out over more time.
  8. gunks

    gunks Well-Known Member

    Still good with Fox. Jackson is starting to look like a very solid pick as well.
  9. kingsboi

    kingsboi Well-Known Member

    I'd still take Fox, Markannen & Smith move up though. They've been impressive. Collins from Atlanta too has shown nice promise.
  10. Chupacabra

    Chupacabra Well-Known Member

    The biggest takeaway for me on Fox so far is that he goes wherever he wants off the dribble. That usually makes for a really good player.
  11. Jimbob

    Jimbob Well-Known Member

    I'm also very happy that Fox fell to 5. Until I see Giles play I have to withhold an opinion on trading away the 10th pick for the 15th and 20th. Knowing Isaac would be off the board, (by the way, how is he looking) I would have gone with Mitchell, though redundant, or Zach Collins. I'm not sure how he's looking either.
  12. sactowndog

    sactowndog Active Member

    The only thing I might have done different is Ananoby over Jackson and Semi over Frank
    biltalent likes this.
  13. sactowndog

    sactowndog Active Member

    Right now Jackson is the biggest disappointment. Fox has potential but needs to show he can run a team versus just going end to end at break net speed.
  14. KingsSelecao

    KingsSelecao Active Member

    Dennis Smith over the past 5 games 20-5-4 42 and 39 percent shooting from 3. He's only 19.
    Watching him go off for 27 against the Spurs tonite.
    He's already a beast.

    I would say He's better than Fox right now. I would have taken Smith in a redraft. He looks more polished
    CelticsFan likes this.
  15. Suicide King

    Suicide King Well-Known Member

    OG was who I wanted us to take before we jumped to 5th (3rd) in the lottery. His first start tonight will make it hard for Toronto to keep him coming off the bench for too long. His defense doesn't show on the stat sheet, plus his shot was falling. When we traded back to 15th and 20th, I was disappointed we didn't draft him with either of those picks.

    I like Justin fair enough considering, and Giles is still a question mark. However as a lover of good defense, I can't help but think about a young core that included Fox and OG.
    King Baller likes this.
  16. LoungeLizard

    LoungeLizard Well-Known Member

    Can't disagree too much there. Smith has looked quite good as of late (and rewarding my fantasy team :p)

    In defense of Fox, Smith is on a much longer leash and given ALOT more freedom within the offense of the Mavs. I still really like Fox, I need to see the whole season play out before I start saying I'd rather have Smith and even then, it may take a couple years. That being said, Smith is a very good rookie.
    King Baller and Suicide King like this.
  17. kingsboi

    kingsboi Well-Known Member

    Smith was and still is my favorite rookie from this class along with Giles and the fact that he is able to showcase himself without Dirk taking up too many shots from him or Barnes, he reminds me of a Baron Davis the more I watch him. Not as strong and built as B Diddy of course.
  18. kingsboi

    kingsboi Well-Known Member

    I think Jackson will be just fine. He has shown spurts where he can have a in between game with the floaters and mid-range shots but at the same time can space the floor with his three ball. It's all about repetition and consistency and you can't expect that with rookies.
  19. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    I tried to kickstart the DSJ hype train but fans were way too blinded by Fox's charisma. Fans didn't even consider DSJ which blows my damn mind. People brought up attitude issues that have been non-existent. Questioned how he'll play after his ACL tear that occurred 2 years ago..and SINCE, he's played a full healthy college season and looks just as explosive. Group think annoys me a lot. I asked people in the predraft what Fox did better than DSJ. Only answers people could give were defense and effort?

    DSJ is almost better at every single aspect of the game..yet was overlooked because he didn't go to Kentucky? makes no sense to me.....Not saying DSJ is a perfect prospect, but I wanted him over Fox. oh well.

    All I'm hoping for is that Fox becomes a semi-respectable 3pt shooter. You know...the most important thing in the NBA? 3pt shooting...
    kingsfan1984 likes this.
  20. sactowndog

    sactowndog Active Member

    DSJ to me is Westbrook lite. A point guard taking 23 shots with two assists is a problem for a winning team. Fox needs to learn how to run an office and set up teammates. I have no problem with Fox playing behind Hill until he figures it out.
  21. ESP47

    ESP47 Well-Known Member

    I think this conversation is extremely short sighted but DSJ is only doing marginally better at the moment. You guys are acting like he's head and shoulders above Fox right now and he's not. He's also playing in a system where his coach is allowing him to go out and play to his strengths.

    Both players are shooting poorly overall.
    DSJ is shooting slightly below average from 3 while Fox has been awful.
    Both are poor at the FT line with DSJ being especially bad for a PG.
    Both are average rebounders with DSJ being slightly better.
    Fox has good assist numbers while DSJ has been average.
    Fox turns the ball over a little over 1.5 less a game than DSJ.

    I liked DSJ, OG, Semi and a handful of other guys as well but we need to let this play out for a bit before acting like mistakes were made. DSJ and OG could blow their knees out at any point. Semi and OG are on very good teams that put them in better situations. DSJ may wind up being a 20ppg scorer but if Fox puts up 16ppg with good assist totals and good defense, he will be just as good despite not having the sexy numbers.
    LoungeLizard and Suicide King like this.
  22. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    DSJ is clearly better than Fox right now though. Compare their per36 numbers, and it becomes more clear.

    A. 19.3pts 5.7asts 5.1rebs 1.1stl 4.4tos on 40.8/32.4/63.9
    B. 15.9pts 7.0asts 4.5rebs 0.7stl 2.7tos on 39.6/19.0/71.1

    In terms of defense, after watching at least 5 games of each, I would say DSJ is a better defender than Fox right now. Neither are good defenders right now, but DSJ doesn't get overpowered the way Fox does. He also does a better job anticipating passes and disrupting lanes. DSJ's assist numbers are also reflective of him playing as the 2nd ball handler sometimes to Yogi and JJ. They're almost equal in terms of playmaking. The only thing I can say Fox does definitely better is taking care of the ball and getting inside the paint. In the 1/2 court game, this is where DSJ blows Fox out of the water. I also feel like DSJ is also portrayed more as an ISO scorer because sometimes he'll use up the entire 24s shotclock, but Fox only uses 10s. Both strategies have their own pros and cons, but I don't think it means DSJ is more of an iso scorer than Fox.

    Saying DSJ could blow his knees out at any point is kinda silly. He played the entire year healthy at NCST and his knees were never made out be a major problem by anyone but fans.

    I think even in a re-draft, DSJ would go before Fox, but Fox probably still goes top 5-7. We're not the only team that passed up on DSJ.
  23. Jimbob

    Jimbob Well-Known Member

    Its looking like John Collins would have been a good pick up. He was not even one of my players of interest pre draft.
    ESP47 likes this.
  24. Larry David

    Larry David Well-Known Member

    Not really, they made that trade seeking to clear cap space to sign Wes Mathews along with the other players they signed that summer.

    Instead, of making that trade they could have stretched JT and Landry and traded Stauskas away for a highly protected second round pick and signed all the same players they signed in 2015 except Barnes.

    Or don't make the trade and don't sign Barnes and/or Marco that summer (and thus, in your Sliding Doors world the Kings don't have Richardson last season (but then again, they didn't have him most of last season anyhow). The 76ers trade does not lead to endless what ifs. They had a couple of options to open up cap space. Too by far the worst option. Kufos is still here. Some of Barnes is still here because Vlade ironically stretched him. Rondo, begat Affallo, who begat Hill ... so both yikes and again not a ton of variance for what they did with that slot. And as before, Marco became Richardson. Caspi doesn't fit into the cap what if because they signed him with the room exception, and thus had the cap to sign him before, after, and without the 76ers trade.

    The moves relate to just a few finite transactions, with discrete cap figures and follow up moves. So I disagree with the Unfrozen Caveman "We just don't know" bit. The players here before, acquired after the 76ers trade, and players that followed into the few slots that opened up were all bad / didn't impact the win total much.
  25. Blob

    Blob Well-Known Member

    Tatum is the one guy I think I may have missed on of the lottery picks. He is much better than I thought. But he is in the perfect system to maximize his skills, playing off a superstar in Kyrie . There's something I can't put my finger on about him but I still don't think he is as good as you may think. If he keeps making 50% of his 3s ,then heck yeah, he's on his way to be something special. He did not show that type of long bomb accuracy at Duke. He has poise and savvy but I am still NOT sold.

    Can he turn into a Paul Pierce type player? Maybe. But the player that I love on that team is Jaylen Brown. Jaylen Brown has TWICE the upside of Tatum IMHO, so how good is Tatum really? Jaylen Brown is on a developmental arc ahead of Kawhi Leonard. Jaylen Brown makes Tatum looks like supporting cast.
    kingsfan1984 likes this.
  26. Blob

    Blob Well-Known Member

    Your love affair with DSJ continues, I see. DSJ has a 3.9 to 3.8 assist to turnover ratio. BAD! I will take Fox over DSJ 8 days a week. Fox is going to be a superstar in our league. DSJ is 6'0 scoring guard.
  27. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    lol you even got his TO ratio wrong. DSJ is 6'3 195lbs. Not sure where you get 6'0 from. What's wrong with being a scoring guard? Fox is also a scoring guard....
  28. Folsomkingsfan

    Folsomkingsfan Active Member

    The funny thing is that both Brown and Tatum were looked at as bad picks when the Celtics made them. People said they reached on Brown and lost out on a potential franchise player in Fultz. Now both of those guys look like, at the very least, high upside starters.

    I don't see why Tatum can't keep up this good shooting. When he was on Duke he was the sole focus of the defense and defenders never gave him any room to breathe. The benefit of playing on the Celtics, next to Kyrie specifically, means that he gets a lot more open looks than he would've on any other lottery team.
    One and Done likes this.
  29. sactowndog

    sactowndog Active Member

    You keep saying this but Tatum would not have been available to the Kings at 3. Chances are high we would have had Fultz and his broken shoulder.
  30. beb0p

    beb0p Well-Known Member

    Coming into the draft, DSJ is one player that I have no doubt will be a very good scorer and I absolutely could NOT stand! Talented? Yes. But holly cow, talk about a selfish player. Don't get me wrong, he would happily move the ball around the perimeter but once he starts his dibble, forgetaboutit, he is going all the way to the rack and he is keeping that rock if the entire arena collapses on him. I watched about 6 college games of him and in all of those game combined, he made exactly one pass, yes one, by drawing defenders and dishing off to an open teammate. I don't mean one assist, I mean one pass. He took off balanced shots against three defenders like it's going out of style. Yes, he made enough of them to get himself to the NBA, but after the dark ages of Beno, Reke and Salmon, I just despised this kind of hero ball.

    With that said, Tyreke and Nick Van Exel were also very selfish in college. They turned out alright. So what do I know. Even if DSJ eventually figures it out, I am not sure the growing pain is worth it. And these type of players usually need to change teams before they realize the right way to play basketball.


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