[Grades] Kings v. Wizards, 10/29/17

Discussion in 'Kings Rap' started by Tetsujin, Oct 29, 2017.



  1. Ugh

    10 vote(s)
  2. Rrawrrrrr

    0 vote(s)
  3. Hsssssssssss

    2 vote(s)
  4. I don't see what the big deal is.

    11 vote(s)
  1. Tetsujin

    Tetsujin The Game Thread Dude

    First off, that was bad.

    Second off, I owe you all an apology for not getting grades out in a timely manner. Real life sorta got in the way there.

    Third off, anyone still ready to dump George Hill?

    Today's theme: Things that rhyme with poop (AKA the thing we played like today)

    Bogdan Bogdanovic (B) --
    B is for Bogdan. After the Kings made it official with Bogdan in the offseason, there was a slight undercurrent of "Can this dude play well enough to justify the Kings making him the richest rookie in the league?". Though it's only been three games (and over a half decade of pro action in Europe), the answer would appear to be a resounding yes. Simply put, the dude can just flat-out play ball. While I'd be hard pressed to say the man is elite in any one skill or another, Bogdan just seems to be good at almost anything, be it crafty drives to the hoop, pull up jumpers, catch and shoot situations, and, perhaps most importantly for this team, game management. I feel like tonight is the first time we really got to see Bogie reap the benefits of NBA spacing with him making a couple of nifty moves for scores that he simply couldn't do in the melee style physicality of the Euroleague game. On defense, Bogdan works hard, which is really all you can ask for from a guy who probably isn't the most amazing athlete in the world. He picked up four steals on the night and none of them were really of the "Well, I guess technically sure that's a steal" variety.

    Skal Labissiere (D-) --
    Oh boy, Skal certainly picked a good time to revert to his timid summer league form didn't he? After starting the season looking like our third or fourth best player, all of Skal's flaws were on full display against the Wizards. On defense, Skal both drifted off of his and left him open in the corner all night while simultaneously managing to not actually help on defense against anyone else. On offense, Skal played scared until the second half, then sorta got better in the third quarter all while also failing to pull down the rebounds. Obviously, since Skal has the body mass of a small elementary schooler, it probably wouldn't have helped much but I don't recall seeing the man even attempt to box out once. Not great, Bob.

    Willie Caulie-Stein (D) --
    Out of any of our starters not named Bogdan, Willie probably had the best night, which is to say he sucked but just not as much as some of the other dudes. Unlike the other young dudes, he at least tried to play some defense except playing help defense stands little chance of working if the man you're helping isn't, well, guarding his guy at all. He was second on the team in rebounding but many of those came not because of any extraordinary effort on Willie's part but rather just because someone had to grab one at some point. Trill displays the occasional offensive flash but will probably never be the dude to trust with running the team via the high post. Goody on us then.

    Buddy Hield (F) --
    I wonder what Vivek thinks. Now obviously it's not Buddy's fault that the owner of the basketball team he plays for set expectations ridiculously high by comparing the man to a former league MVP and then trading the team's franchise player for him and not much more but his play to start the year has largely been bleak save for the third quarter of the Suns game where he randomly decided to play like mini-Ron Artest. Aside from that, it's been missed shot after missed shot and horrible forced play after forced play. Does this mean that it's Buddy Bust-ets rather than Buddy Buckets? No, but I now think it's safe to say that buddy may not be the next Steph after all.

    De'Aaron Fox (D-) --
    Boy, it was not a good night for the rookie from Kentucky. For the first time in his short NBA career, Fox looked entirely outclassed and outmatched, like a boy playing against men. Perhaps having learned his lesson from the whole Lonzo Ball matchup fiasco earlier in the week, John Wall showed up and brought his A game and completely left Fox as a smoldering crater in his wake. De'Aaron, like the entire roster in the first half, simply couldn't make a shot to save his life and the rest of his game sorta wilted without the boost of his offensive ability. To his credit, he at least looked passable at times in the second half, when the game was already entirely out of reach. Sometimes its good to just pause and remember that the kid is still just nineteen and maybe not ready to become the bringer of destruction that we all know he can be with time.

    Vince Carter (D) --
    Has looked every bit his age since the first several games. Tonight, with most of the other elders out of the game, Vince tried to force the issue in his extended minutes. Unfortunately when your leader goes careening off a cliff, the rest of the followers will do the same. Has also played a lot of power forward (badly) in Joerger's attempted small lineups, which hasn't been that awesome.

    Kosta Koufos (B) --
    Even though he shots the ball like a man who's never seen a basketball game before, Kosta remains a solid plodding constant among the sea of young dudes and old guys. He can rebound, play solid, good if not spectacular team defense, and is probably the only guy on the team who is capable of setting a pick. Just don't ask the man to score.

    Garrett Temple (C) --
    On the one hand, it's GT so you know the effort is going to be there. On the other hand, his defense was pretty bad for the first time in like forever. Though he tried almost all game (or at least the minutes he was on the court), for whatever reason Garrett just didn't seem capable of guarding a butterfly resting on a flower. And, at the end of the day, while you appreciate everything else he's doing for you, GT's defensive prowess is what you want from him.

    Frank Mason (C-) --
    Frank finally got the playing time many in this fanbase have been asking for. The results were something of a mixed bag.

    Malachi Richardson (D) --

    Justin Jackson (D) --

    Georgios Papagiannis (inc. garbage time) --

    JaKarr Sampson (inc. garbage time) --
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2017
  2. Tetsujin

    Tetsujin The Game Thread Dude

    Placeholder 2
  3. Sac.1989

    Sac.1989 Well-Known Member

    Bogdan is a solid player
  4. Kingsfan23

    Kingsfan23 Well-Known Member

    About Hill... I’m still not his biggest fan, but I might not be as vociferous about De’Aaron needing to start..

    I still think he should start, andbwould start on most teams. Ball and DSJ get their heads kicked in at times too. I think it’s a learning process, but I can see the argument about wanting to preserve the rookies confidence. It’s just on this team Fox has outplayed Hill and Hill not being here is the difference in Mason getting those minutes (Fox playing 25+ anyways)

    Today was a bummer.. I was about to say that I really liked the path our youth was on, but it’s still a process..

    I’m not sure the Hield/Bogs combo won’t work. We still have a lot invested in Buddy developing that sending him to the bench might hinder
    206Fan and kingsfan1984 like this.
  5. gunks

    gunks Well-Known Member

    Bogs looks way legit.

    Fox is a shrimpy 19 year old, of course Wall was going to manhandle him. He'll bounce back.

    Buddy needs to snap out of this funk, he's looking terrible. I know he's better than this.
    Ron, King Baller, VF21 and 1 other person like this.
  6. The_Jamal

    The_Jamal Well-Known Member

    I think what's getting lost on people is just how freaking new our team structure is. It's a bunch of first and 2nd year guys trying to figure out how to play with each other without any idea of how "Kings Basketball" is supposed to look like. Compare that to a young guy going to play for the Spurs, Warriors or even the Wizards, who's core has spent 3+ years together now. If you go join up with Wall, Beal and company as a young guy, you know what's going to be expected of you. We play right now as if no one really knows what their role is on the team yet.

    Not worried in the slightest about losses or even how we look as a team right now. All I care about is the young guys continuing to get minutes and us getting closer to deciding which of these guys is going to be apart of the core.
    jcassio, pshn80, VF21 and 5 others like this.
  7. New Era

    New Era Well-Known Member

    We've largely been competitive in most games this year, up until this one. These kinds of games are going to happen. At the end of the day, we will win in the low 20's and we'll get a top 5 pick. That was the plan. I'm still on board.
    VF21 likes this.
  8. kingsboi

    kingsboi Well-Known Member

    I applaud the fans at the arena who stuck around to watch this drubbing. Glad to see Mason get some burn. Bogs will be all right.
  9. Larry89

    Larry89 Disgruntled Kings Fan

    Bogdan looked spectacular, watching him reminded me of watching mid 2000's all star players on bad teams, he is just more comfortable than everyone else out there on our squad right now..

    I am worried about Buddy, he looked so promising last year.. now not so much
  10. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    Is there a way to unwatch this game??

    Fox: F-. By far his worst game of 6. He couldn't stay in front in Wall and constantly got stuck in screens..which lead him to being late on rotations. Gave Wall 1 too many open 3s. On offense, I've already said this.. and I don't like reiterating it. He's not a player you can ask to go out there and run an offense. He'll get there in 3-4 years, but not right now. He needs to play next to George Hill(not a great playmaker, but can run an offense). The offense was disorganized and he couldn't really create good looks for anyone. He couldn't establish a flow. His shots weren't falling and he wasn't aggressive enough attacking the rim. Very bad game, but he's only 19.

    Hield: F. Terrible on defense and couldn't buy a single shot. No clue what's gotten into Buddy but he just doesn't look good or comfortable on offense. Missing 3s and hesitating. His ball handling is still way too sloppy for a guy who wants to be more than a spot up jumper. On defense..I can't say I don't have hope, but he's just flat out, not laterally quick enough. Buddy actually has a bulky frame at 214lbs, but he doesn't know how to fight the screen. I know it's partly on how Joerger wants them to switch and recover, but he's got to do a much much better job if he wants to keep his starting role.

    Bogdanovic: B, Our best player of the night. He was able to get 4steals by being extremely active in the passing lanes and even picking pockets. His defense was good tonight, but he did occasionally get beat. However, he had the easiest assignment out of every guard...Kelly Oubre. He did a very good job pushing in transition when we did have those limited opportunities. He's hesitant to shoot the 3ball when open. He got really good looks tonight that lots of shooters would just take and knock down. Instead, he'd take a few dribbles(uncalled travels) then pass it out. Like the rest of the starters, he just didn't do anything in the beginning of the game. He was too passive and his defensive rotations were bad.

    Skal: D-, couldn't get things going on offense, and struggled on defense. He was tasked with guarding Porter Jr, but all he did was stand at the 3pt line. Skal tried way too much to overhelp in the passing lane...leading to open shots for Porter Jr. On offense, he missed his first 3 shots and wasn't able to exploit the matchup. Not strong enough to bully Porter Jr......who's one of the slenderest SFs. Wasn't active on the boards and still doesn't box out. He did get a few shots to go later in the game......................when we were down 30.

    WCS: D-, On offense, couldn't get anything going. On defense, he massively tried to over help the terrible perimeter defense from our guards. You can't blame him because Fox and Hield were terrible. However, at some point, you have to back down and understand that it's not necessary for you to step out in the perimeter all the time. Willie may be 240lbs, but he gets bullied in the post. At this point... how can anyone say Willie is a good defender? He's not. He has potential to be, but the dude is far from it. He can't guard post players. He can't guard stretch 4s. Only thing he can do is guard on switches. I think he'd look a lot better out there with competent defenders, but he's just not a good defender right now. Yea he got 9rebs, but it's because he tried jumping higher than everyone else.

    Koufos: B-, missed bunnies and open opportunities, but he was good in contesting all the shots at the rim....except our guards didn't think it was important to box out Wizards players. He was grabbing all the rebounds and doing a good job on the boards. Simple Koufos offense. I'm scared to say this, but he legitimately might be our 3rd best player on the team......... he's by far, our most consistent player on the team.

    Mason C-, he did a good job penetrating, but he didn't do a good job finishing or passing it out. He was aggressive scoring on offense. He was matched up to many guards tonight, and didn't back down from any of them. He was able to stay in front and use his strength against them. Didn't really do much for the flow of the offense or teammates at PG.

    Carter: F----. He was terrible. no words to describe a 20+yearold NBA vet playing like a 18yearold rookie. I'm not even talking about the missed shots..but the turnovers? Lots of boneheaded plays from Carter.

    Richardson: D+, played within the offense, but at times tried to create shots that just weren't falling. He only had 1reb in 20mins, but that's because he was guarding out further in the perimeter. Defense was bad like everyone else.

    Temple: C, solid game all around, but was bad on defense...like everyone else. His effort was there which is a big +.
    MizzouKing and New Era like this.
  11. CVKingsfan

    CVKingsfan Active Member

    Well, there is no hiding it now as it was on full display for all of us to see ... the "rebuild" is now official! However, I have faith these youngsters will grow as a result of this game. All of our draftees are high character guys, and based on their history to date, are highly intelligent. I have no doubt they are each examining this game, and their performance, and will dedicate themselves toward improving! Bogdan and Mason were impressive. Go Kings!!!
  12. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    The Kings need to stop their high-post bullpoopoo. Is Joerger just trying to hammer out fundamentals on the young guys? It doesn't benefit anyone on this team. There's not a single player that excels from this high-post offense except the opposing team. Fox needs to be running PnR with WCS, and PnP with Skal. I'd understand it a little more if we had an elite shooting PG, but we don't. To be honest, we don't even have any guys on this team who can even zip out the 3ball fast enough curling off screens.
    So I'm not entirely understanding what Joerger is trying to do. Common sense would tell you to start with a player's strength, and build on it. Yeah you want to these young guys basketball, but we just don't have the right personnel to run the type of offense he wants.

    The one thing I do worry about is that we don't have a franchise player on this team right now. There's no one on this team who can consistently create their offense and score. I don't think this team is anywhere near as good as Grant or anyone else tries to make it out to be. You can point to youth, but most superstars in today's game make day 1 impacts and show great consistent scoring ability.. not just glimpses. Just look at this game. Were down 20pts, and NO one except Frank and Bogdan took up the challenge and try to put this team on their back. Yes, yes, our guys are young. But that doesn't mean they aren't bad. Because they ARE bad.
  13. ESP47

    ESP47 Well-Known Member

    I'd like to see Frank and Bogdan be more aggressive. Bogdan needs to just catch and shoot if he has the space. Trying to grind out an easier basket at the moment isn't very conducive to points. Frank should shoot that 3 ball when his man gives him room to get it up. He's a fantastic 3 point shooter and should be pulling the trigger out there more often.

    Not counting those two and other than Malachi looking meh, Koufos being his usual reliable but unspectacular self and Skal's second half....it was basically just a flurry of F's.
  14. Npliam

    Npliam Well-Known Member

    Well.....that didn't go well.

    I assume that will quite the "Rookies should get all the minutes" talk around here. At least until the next game.
    Tetsujin, Pacboy, pshn80 and 2 others like this.
  15. Kingster

    Kingster Well-Known Member

    One little blowout and the world has come to an end. Did anyone really believe that we wouldn't see this team getting demolished at times during the course of the season? The Warriors, San Antonio, Memphis, Minnesota, OKC, and many more await. It's a talented very young team we saw out there today against a very talented very experienced group of men. This is what reality is. Get used to it for the next couple of years. They got their butts whipped hard today and it will be happening again, and again, and again until it bleeds, and then every once in while we'll see a glimpse of the future when everything clicks, like the first half against New Orleans. Reynolds said something during the game that I agree with: Skal needs to develop a little mean streak in order to maximize his ability. I think there are several young kids on this team that need to develop a little mean streak in order to maximize their abilities. Eventually the little kid who gets creamed by the bullies gets bigger and stronger and smarter and meaner. Then the shoe is on the other foot. It's thrashings like this that will help them get there.
  16. VF21

    VF21 #KingsFansForever Staff Member Contributor

    VF21 quote of the day:

    MizzouKing and New Era like this.
  17. The Hammer

    The Hammer Well-Known Member

  18. VF21

    VF21 #KingsFansForever Staff Member Contributor

    Give Bogs a chance. He has been in the US for less than a month (or so) and has played in 3 NBA games. I have no doubts that he will fit into the scheme things very quickly. He reminds me a lot of Peja when he first got here, and that seemed to work out pretty well.
    MizzouKing and RichieInRocklin like this.
  19. Telemachus

    Telemachus Well-Known Member

    With you it is never the glass is half full, but that the glass is overflowing.
    Sac.Kings and Tetsujin like this.
  20. The Hammer

    The Hammer Well-Known Member

    I'm doing character comedy.
  21. VF21

    VF21 #KingsFansForever Staff Member Contributor

    You probably ought to look more closely at what is IN the glass. :p
  22. Telemachus

    Telemachus Well-Known Member

    I'm guessing it is something strong. :D
    SLAB likes this.
  23. KingsSelecao

    KingsSelecao Active Member

    B: Bogdanovich: Easily, the only semi effective King tonite. was able to create, effective off the ball and play some decent defense.
    D-: Fox: Shades of Tyreke tonite. Difference is Reke was already a beast at 20. Big reason, he was able to put up 20-5-5 in his first season. Teams are starting to gameplan for Fox. Fox was rendered completely useless the entire night. Every dribble drive was met with dbl teams and a heavy dose of stoppage at the rim. Fox needs to develop a jumper. Until then, you will start to see a lot more of tonite's numbers. Especially, against good teams.
    D: Hield: Usually Streaky. Tonite, just didn't show up. I am afraid the Pels knew exactly what they were giving away
    D: Skal: Seem Overwhelmed by starting. Shot selection was poor and defense was porous. Mike Scott? WHo? Lit him up.
    D: WCS: Played stoned . Once again
    C: JJ: Not asked to do much. At this point, should be in the D League
    B: Mason: 11 pts off the bench. Not bad. Mostly in garbage time, the whole game
    F: Papa: Why is this guy still on the team. He's terrible. Stop using the excuse of his age. He's older than Jahil Okafor and makes him look like an All Star.
    C: Koufas: Some excellent boards and mayonaise hands.
    C: Richardson: Bes
    206Fan likes this.
  24. Larry89

    Larry89 Disgruntled Kings Fan

    People paid money to see this
  25. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    Tyreke is easily better than Fox at the same age. I think he was also more talented. In Tyreke's 6th game, he put up 32pts 7asts 3rebs on 7-15 FG and 16-19 FT.

    It'll come down to how Fox develops in the long-run. The good thing is that he's only 19, but I wish people would stop saying he'll be a superstar. He's shown nothing in his first 6 games to deserve that label.
    pshn80 likes this.
  26. sactowndog

    sactowndog Active Member

    I am curious how Bogdan and Hill will pair. Hill plays better with a 2 who can be a secondary playmaker. Bogdan is that kind of player whereas Fox and Buddy aren’t really all around guards. Buddy may also play better off the bench without being “the guy”. I think Buddy just puts too much pressure on himself.
  27. pshn80

    pshn80 Well-Known Member

    Yes and I was happy I did it. Fun to see them all play and to see Bog and Mason have good games. We lost the first half by 31 and won the second by three. Mason, Bogdanovic and Jackson are competent basketball players and someday some of the others will be too.
    VF21 and King Baller like this.
  28. upinsmoke

    upinsmoke Well-Known Member

    I attended today's "game" and as soon as Wall sank his first 3 I had a bad feeling. No energy from our guys and if you think koufos looked bad on TV he was absolutely atrocious in person minus 10lbs. Did these guys stay out late or something???
    206Fan likes this.
  29. Telemachus

    Telemachus Well-Known Member

    Okafor is a year and a half older than Papagianis.
    King Baller likes this.
  30. Vladizzle

    Vladizzle Well-Known Member

    I'm kind of worried about Carter. Was really excited to have him here, but I think he instantly realized how bad of a fit it is and is uncomfortable. I mean we aren't playing any sort of winning basketball, so he's trying to revert back to his old self and make things happen (aka 25 year old moves in a 40 yo body) instead of playing within himself and the offense (which we don't have). That and just being twice everyone's age and the up and comers can't really relate with Vince (positions and style of play)

    Can't blame him, but it's hard to watch and probably the end for him.

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