[Game] Kings @ Lakers - Tuesday, Jan. 9 - 7:30 PT

Discussion in 'Kings Rap' started by VF21, Jan 8, 2018.

  1. ppine

    ppine Well-Known Member

    Bogdan is figuring out the NBA quickly playing always under control. Fox is picking up the pace by playing fast.
    I hope Temple retires and considers coaching.
    Skal and Willie each get 4 rebounds in 25 minutes. Kosta gets 15 rebounds in 20 minutes. Kufous is an important player on this team.
    Did anyone else notice that Mon nite Bertans and Aldridge shot at will, and then last night it was Lopez? The Kings were in it until Lopez fires off 3 treys in a row. Willie is supposed to be the highly touted defender that can cover all 5 positions. The Kings defense against big men shooting 3s and layups is terrible. I blame Willie and Skal for the loss. We know Randolph can't defend anyone either.
    Big man defense and rebounding is the weak link. We got fewer shots and gave up too many offensive rebounds.
    I hate losing to the Lakers. Ball is a real punk. When he grows up he will tell his father to be quiet and stop bothering him. Then he will learn to keep his rookie mouth shut.
  2. parker

    parker Well-Known Member

    Randolph was guarding Lopez during the stint you are talking about. Willie may be touted as being able to guard multiple positions, but he can't do it all at once.
  3. ppine

    ppine Well-Known Member

    Randolph and Skal are not good at all on the defensive side of the ball. Last night there were several plays were Willie got spun around in the paint and was not even in the play.
    None of them are good defensive players. They are not consistent rebounders either. None of them.
  4. Joshoua

    Joshoua Well-Known Member

    I remember one play when Vince was behind Skal and was legit in disbelief that Skal didn’t contest a layup attempt
    ppine likes this.
  5. YoungBlood

    YoungBlood Member

    Skal at least can be developed into a good defender. He's shown flashes. Randolph is useless and slow.
    Blob likes this.
  6. eMBarkat10n

    eMBarkat10n Active Member

    Generally speaking, though, they're all kids...
  7. kingsboi

    kingsboi Well-Known Member

    To be honest, Skal and slow-bo are bigger liabilities when they are on the court because they simply can't stay with their man and there is no one there to contest any shots in the paint when players do get there. Trill isn't the touted defender he is made out to be, he can't defend on the perimeter and that's surprising considering he doesn't carry a lot of weight on him so he should be more agile and quick on the perimeter than he shows. He maybe exerts too much energy on the offensive side to play a big enough role on the other end.

    Why is Ball a punk? I see a kid out there making his teammates better all while keeping his mouth shut and just playing the game. He doesn't go out there and yell, scream and shout for attention.
    206Fan and gunks like this.
  8. Capt. Factorial

    Capt. Factorial Cantry Member Staff Member Contributor

    It's a classic case of the sins of the father falling upon the son. The criticism of Ball, such as there is, ought to be focused on his funky shot which isn't falling as well in the NBA as it was in college. The idea that he's a punk, or that he needs to keep his mouth shut doesn't appear to have any basis in reality. On the court, and in interviews, he is respectful, quiet, even socially awkward. His answers to questions tend to be laconic. He is, if anything, the polar opposite of his father. Hey, LaVar is a real pain in the neck, but it's completely unfair to put that on Lonzo.
    VF21, SLAB and pdxKingsFan like this.
  9. Blob

    Blob Well-Known Member

    Willie got punked last night. That's why I tried to temper my enthusiasm over his recent surge (and back to back 8-12 FGs, something I am certain he has never done before).

    I have been fooled before! He actually was creating some of his own offense more so than any time in his career.

    But he got so abused last night and was conspicuously bad. You can say it was partially because of the back-to-back games and fatigue, but I wonder how good a player can ever become when his performance floor is SO low, when his offensive moves lead to off balance flings and he just gets pushed out of the way defensively.

    This is the guy Vlade says can be a "ELITE"??? Gimme a break.

    What a disingenuous and bias assessment.

    Average 10 rebounds per game for 5 games minimum then lets talk about being elite.

    Take away last night for a second and look at his nice stretch over which he played the BEST basketball of his career.

    He has only made 1 BLOCK SHOT in 10 games. Sorry, Vlade but an elite center playing the best ball on his career blocks more than one shot over the course of 10 games.

    Meanwhile the guy Vlade should have drafted, the obvious pick given relative comparison at the time (a Kevin Durant-type talent), is leading the NBA in shot blocking (Myles Turner 2.2 Block Shots Per Game) and does NOT turn 21 until March. Willie is almost 4 years older than a player swatting shots at over 5X the rate.

    Then there's the fiasco of George Hill and the $30M still owed, the disappointment of Skal after strong finish last year, the disastrous rookie season shaping up for Justin Jackson, the invisibility of Papa G, the underwhelming insignificance of Malachi, and you can come to the safe and fair conclusion this coach has NO special ability to extract talent from his players AND the GM has NO special ability as a talent prognosticator.

    90% of teams would FIRE their coach for his performance this year and the number of lopsided losses.

    Joerger would be canned by 26 or 27 teams out of 30 for what he has gotten out of this team:
    • Offensive Efficiency (LAST in NBA)
    • Defensive Efficiency (LAST in NBA)
    • Shooting (LAST in NBA)
    • Rebounding (27 out of 30)
    • Pace (27 out of 30)
    Coaches have gotten FIRED for FAR less than this collective ineptitude.

    Being last in offense AND defense has NEVER been infamously achieved by ANY team over 25-30 years that the data has been compiled.

    Even if you do NOT advocate for the firing of the coach (which I do NOT....yet) then certainly the teams performance opens up the coach to questions related to every decision he has made including:
    • The Z-Bo centric offense
    • The amount of playing time granted to Vince Carter
    • The palpable lack of confidence he shows in all inexperienced players except Boggy
    • The bizarre inexplicable affinity last year to Matt Barnes (out of league) and Aaron Affalo (3 PPG on the tanking Magic)
    I want to conclude with one last point that many fans miss: Of course this coach is going to talk about process and the time required for this team to come together, what is it now, 3-4 years minimum before we are "playoff ready"?

    Of course there is merit to this perspective. But think about it. Joerger has every reason to fall back on this excuse. It buys him time and status and excuses away games like last night.

    Even if it doesn't work out, he has collected a NICE paycheck while the team performs to HISTORICALLY bad levels.

    How any Kings fan can work up much of a passionate defense over this coach and games like last night, which have occurred with alarming frequency FAR worse than even the REALLY bad teams we have been witness to over the last 10 years, is beyond my level of comprehension, empathy or pity.
  10. Gliesian

    Gliesian Well-Known Member

    I just looked up his blocks and I saw 4 blocks, not 1, in the last 10 games (not counting Lakers game). Can you post a link that says no team has ever been the worst in DEF and OFF?
  11. The Effort Police

    The Effort Police Well-Known Member

    It's because of the narrative sold over the summer by the organization, the people that bought it will argue this platform.. *shrug* What can I say, people want to hope that this franchise is finally on the right path.
  12. Suicide King

    Suicide King Well-Known Member

    To be fair, not all of us live where we are treated ( or subjected ) to any localized media hype or narrative.
  13. kingsboi

    kingsboi Well-Known Member

    Trill will be eligible for a extension very soon and if he doesn't fix his rebounding and defensive effort, I don't want the Kings to be the team that forks over 100 million his way, which is what he and his agent will want. Guaranteed.
    ppine likes this.
  14. SacTownKid

    SacTownKid Well-Known Member

    Wow, this is pretty staggering stuff. It hasn't really "looked" that bad but numbers don't lie. The other issue is the amount of veterans factored into to roles that are closer to full time starters than their younger counterparts. The Kings shouldn't be this bad and it gives credence to the idea that going full youth couldn't be that much worse.

    As for Willie it's almost impossible to properly judge defensive prowess or offensive prowess when clearly the entirety of the teams foundation is flawed. The strange thing is I can't remember a Kings team with this much individual defensive potential and they are this bad. I would love to see them switch more screens and hug the 3 point line rather than over help in the paint.
    JCTNKINGFAN, 206Fan and Blob like this.
  15. Siranthony

    Siranthony Well-Known Member

    People here are so knee jerk reaction. Personally I'm starting to think the Kings don't really care about winning at this point. Disappointing if true, depending on your point of view. But people come on here and talk as if the entire roster is a bust etc, etc. Nonsense!
  16. Capt. Factorial

    Capt. Factorial Cantry Member Staff Member Contributor

    If a single example (I didn't look for any more) will disprove the rule, the 1992-1993 Dallas Mavericks were last in ORTG (99.5, 4.1 points below the next worst team) and last in DRTG (114.7, 2.9 points above the next worst team). This year the Kings have an ORTG of 102.6 (0.7 points below the next worst team) and a DRTG of 111.8 (0.3 points above the next worst team).

    Of course, one would note that the Kings margin of victory (MOV) this year is -8.65, which is bad, but mild compared to those '92-'93 Mavs who had a MOV of -15.2! In fact, if we look just from 1990 (arbitrary year giving us almost 30 years of coverage) forward, there have been 35 teams who finished with a worse MOV than the Kings have right now. Interestingly, none of those 35 teams even came close to a .300 record, while the Kings right now are at .325. And if you look at the 28 other teams in that same timespan with a MOV of between -7.0 and -8.65, only 4 of them were better than .300 and only one of them had a better record than the Kings.

    This is not to say that we are good - far from it. But we don't really quite live in that "historically bad, never before seen terribleness" realm. And our overall results, oddly, are quite a bit better than our MOV suggests, which is probably due to our numbers being skewed by a couple of really bad blowouts (e.g. Atlanta).
  17. KingsSelecao

    KingsSelecao Active Member

    Love your post. I got your back, Sac Brother!
  18. Kingsfan23

    Kingsfan23 Well-Known Member

    He needs to have impact on winning and losing before getting paid. I’ll give him credit, though. I left him out to pasture not too long ago, but with his offensive improvement, we just need him to not be an issue on the boards and defensively.. I don’t know if he can get there but it’s within the realm of possibility. Just need to see him without Randolph. Seeing how he does as a the big man defensively in a style that plays with pace. He needs to get to a point where he’s not obliterated by a Jordan or what have you. But, it’ll be interesting what he will command on the market. At least we have another year and a half to take a look at his trajectory
  19. kingsboi

    kingsboi Well-Known Member

    Based on his trajectory, he is doing the opposite of what got him drafted in the lottery and he is solely focusing on becoming more of an offensive center, which is fine so long as he is consistent and not hurting the team on the other end. More teams will drag him out of the paint knowing that he won't stay with his man on the perimeter or will only make a weak attempt at contesting a shot.
    206Fan likes this.
  20. Kingsfan23

    Kingsfan23 Well-Known Member

    Richardson with the well deserved send down to the Bighorns. You don’t respond to being allowed to start by doing nothing but taking bad looks.. very inauspicious. Time for JJ to get that look
    King Baller and 206Fan like this.
  21. sactowndog

    sactowndog Active Member

    Either that or they are creatively tanking.

    As a card carrying member of the LIN crowd, Dave is doing a great job of not letting the league know what our true starting line up truly is. Hard to say playing X guy is clearly tanking.
  22. sactowndog

    sactowndog Active Member

    I think Fox looks for his shot more when ZBo is off the floor. Fox doesn’t yet look to get the ball to his shooters as much. He will need to improve in this area for the team to play better. Buddy, Skal and Bogdan all play much better with good ball movement.
    206Fan likes this.
  23. Blob

    Blob Well-Known Member

    Oops my bad I meant to say 3 blocks in last 10 games (including LAL) for a whopping block rate of 0.333 per game.
  24. Blob

    Blob Well-Known Member

    I ascribe to the idea that getting more touches and opportunity to score should make any player MORE engaged defensively as long as he is not being asked to carry the load with James Harden level usage. A player is more part of the action this way vs being a relative bystander and more instrumental to team success. Willie is only shooting 10 shots per 26 minutes. This should have NO averse effect on his effort or effectiveness defensively. I am not buying any suggestion that because he is focusing on expanding his offense within a system is enabling that his defense should suffer. If anything it should get better.
  25. rosa u podne

    rosa u podne New Member

    0.3 per game.
  26. eMBarkat10n

    eMBarkat10n Active Member

    I forgot to add this little "observation" in my earlier comments, but...

    Goodness Me, Lonzo's shot looks PATHETIC. That has to be one of the UGLIEST looking things I've seen in quite a while. Maybe ever. And that's not even the "Laker Hater" in me talking. That's the basketball fan in me.
    King Baller, JCTNKINGFAN and VF21 like this.

    JCTNKINGFAN Active Member

    Grant or Jerry made the comment a while back that when Willie plays good, the Kings play good. but, I think it is just the opposite, that when the Kings play good, Willie plays good. Defense is a team effort, Willie is active, switching, playing all over the floor, but when the team defense collapses, when defensive rotations are missed, when people miss assignments, it also affects Willie's defensive play. It is said that Willie can guard all 5 positions, even if that is true, he cannot guard them all at once. When the team defense is bad, Willie spends a lot of more time guarding on the perimeter away from the basket making it harder to gather a rebound and also limiting his rim protection. When the team defense is bad, when our guards and wings get lost on defense, I see a lot of more times that Willie is the one closing out on the wide open perimeter shooter, having to leave his man in the paint, who, if the defense does not rotate quickly enough, is open for an easy basket. Also, this takes his momentum away from the basket making it harder to get a rebound. Offensively, when the team is sluggish and does not move the ball well, it limits his offensive effectiveness. Against the Lakers, it looked like the offense was just out of synch. I saw several times where Willie was open for the lob or had inside post position, but they were slow to react and did not get him the ball. He tried to make his own offensive plays several times, but that is not a major part of his game. None of Willie's 3 baskets were assisted.
    Suicide King, SacTownKid and dude12 like this.
  28. King Baller

    King Baller Well-Known Member

    Normally I pay little attention to plus minus. But it was startling in this game. Some fellas just had a bad game. Including some Lakers:eek: One other point is that the Lakers starting unit included these Vets: Lopez - 10th season, KCP - 5th season and Randle - 4th season. Sometimes it is easy to overlook the importance these seasoned Vets can bring in certain games.

    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
  29. dude12

    dude12 Well-Known Member

    WCS has been very good on defense. He's been very solid on offense. That has been the trend for quite some time. His bad games are becoming fewer and fewer.
  30. kingsboi

    kingsboi Well-Known Member

    His heavy breathing in the first quarter tells me otherwise. I see him get gassed because of the up and down tempo and as a result you see him miss shots in the paint or miss the basket entirely at times.

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