[Game] Kings @ Clippers - Saturday, Jan. 13 - 12:30 PT

Discussion in 'Kings Rap' started by VF21, Jan 13, 2018 at 10:47 AM.

  1. YoungBlood

    YoungBlood Member

    The fact that Bogdonavic isn’t starting tells me Joerger isn’t serious about winning. I’m all for getting a good draft pick but come on. Garret temple does not deserve to be starting over Bogdan.
    kingdivac and ppine like this.
  2. SacTownKid

    SacTownKid Well-Known Member

    Here is a specific chart showing the Kings defense from that EXACT corner and that side of the floor. They give up 45% for the year from there which is insane. They tend to help more from the right side for the floor and the shooting percentages against reflect that. They give up even higher percentage looks from where Buddy was up helping before. I have seen Joerger chastise a player for sticking to the corner and not helping into the paint.


    Swish 2.0_ .png


    http://www.austinclemens.com/shotcharts/#teams


    Nobody is claiming Buddy to be anything other than average on defense, but the Kings defense isn't bad because of him or any other individual player so using that as excuse shows imbalance in any argument suggesting that as a reason to limit playing time considering the eventual result anyway. When your entire defensive system is flawed you can't dictate anything you do by that because nobody will take it seriously.
    Joshoua, YoungBlood and fansinceday1 like this.
  3. Kingsfan23

    Kingsfan23 Well-Known Member

    Despite the offensive improvement, WCS is not impactful towards winning. I’m not sure we will see if he can be in a half court style of play, and it will be up to the staff to get him passable in the paint as a 5. But he doesn’t impose his will on games, but plays off others, that’s part of the motor issue
    Kingster likes this.
  4. VF21

    VF21 #KingsFansForever Staff Member Contributor

  5. VF21

    VF21 #KingsFansForever Staff Member Contributor

    You're talking season. I was talking about TODAY.
  6. SacTownKid

    SacTownKid Well-Known Member


    It's who he is and in truth it's what you want next to guards on what should be a guard driven team. I think one success they can tout is the improvement he has made as an offensive talent. In the end he's no different than any other pick and roll big. The thing is you can win championships with bigs like that these days if they hold their own defensively and I think he can.
  7. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    Completely disagree. I've been as big of a Willie skeptic as anyone, but he fits perfectly in the 1/2 court. He's a lethal threat in the PnR and eve PnP...Joerger just refuses to run him in those sets.
  8. jcwkings

    jcwkings Well-Known Member

    I don't know what to say. We have Bogdanovic and Willie who where made for pick and roll. Fox who could eventually thrive in it also. Yet here we are still running high post sets with Zbo and Kosta Koufos. Sacramento media is too softball to point it out also. Sometimes you wonder if this franchise will ever get out of its own way.
  9. SacTownKid

    SacTownKid Well-Known Member

    And I'm saying what you saw is rather typical for the most part as the stats suggest. He might have been helping farther off than he should have but that IS part of their defensive system. And in case you haven't noticed he's been starting most games this year with his "best" defensive unit with Hill, Bogdanovic, and Temple out there. Yet, game after game it's the same thing. We've seen Joerger rearrange this puzzle in almost every configuration you could imagine and the only thing that showed any sort of promise IMO were the brief youth reprieve games. In the end sitting one of his most relevant scoring talents in Buddy Hield is cutting his nose off to spite his face because you're best shot is to out score the other team.

    Look, I can get with sitting someone for a minute or two as a lesson, but can in no way support playing someone 3 minutes then sitting them 20 then playing them the final 4 minutes of a half. Someone could literally strain a muscle doing that because you get warmed up, cool down, then have a very small window to do anything with. Hill also got some of that treatment today.
  10. Joshoua

    Joshoua Well-Known Member

    Don’t insult WCS we refuse to run anyone in those sets. Skal would be good in them too.
  11. jcwkings

    jcwkings Well-Known Member

    The sad part is we will probably have a fun 8-10 game stretch in March/April where the vets will be sat and the narrative will be "man the future is awesome, can't wait till next year". That should have happened yesterday. Just wasting time with "Zbo turning back the clock tonight!" I disagreed with people who criticized the vet signing in the summer but now I get it, especially with the way the Kings are handling it. The team is running sets you would run if Zbo was your go to guy in his prime instead of identifying who your best players are (Bogdan, Fox, Willie) and cultivating a system around their game (pick and roll heavy offense). This season should be being used to work out the kinks for those guys since wins don't matter. Instead we will probably be doing that next season(if ever) when we don't have a draft pick and all the losing will be for nothing.
  12. SacTownKid

    SacTownKid Well-Known Member

    The momentum of last March/April seems like forever ago.
  13. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    Here's what a poster on STR figured out:

    The high post has been garbage
    The Kings average a little over 23 elbow touches per game. That is the most by a very wide margin. The Knicks are second with 19 per game. The problem is they are the also sooo inefficient with their touches. When passing out of the high post, they’re tied with Memphis for 28th in AST%. When an elbow touch ends with a shot, the Kings rank 28th in FG% at 48.7.

    The high post has been garbage
    The Kings average a little over 23 elbow touches per game. That is the most by a very wide margin. The Knicks are second with 19 per game. The problem is they are the also sooo inefficient with their touches. When passing out of the high post, they’re tied with Memphis for 28th in AST%. When an elbow touch ends with a shot, the Kings rank 28th in FG% at 48.7.

    agreed to part ways, my ass!

    Posted by RORDOG on Jan 12, 2018 | 4:10 PM
    [​IMG]
    And 1
    If you dig a little deeper, you can really see what kind of shots the players are taking in Joerger’s systems. And its not good. Here’s the things that stand out the most:

    Limiting catch and shoot opportunities: The Kings rank 25th in total catch and shoot attempts per game. They’re 11th in catch and shoot eFG%. When you look at all players with at least 2 catch and shoot FGA per game, Buddy Hield has the highest eFG% of any player in the NBA (76.9%, or 1.54 points per attempt). The problem is that he only gets 3.4 catch and shoot opportunities per game. For reference, the Warriors offense generates 9.2 catch and shoot FGA for Klay Thompson per game.

    Too few 3PA: This one has been discussed enough, but it is still amazing that Hill and Hield are 5th and 6th in the NBA in 3FG% for players that have shot over 100 3’s, but aren’t even in the top 100 in 3PAs. And just to make sure I include everything the Kings are 29th in the NBA in 3PA, and 4th in 3P%.

    Encouraging pull-up jumpers: The Kings are 8th in the NBA in pull-up FGA per game. Pull-ups are a really inefficient way to generate points. The Kings average .848 points per pull up attempt (42.4 eFG%). The best team at shooting pull-ups, the Rockets, barely average higher than 50% eFG%. If you drill down even deeper, you see that the Kings take over 25% of their 2-point attempts after 1-2 dribbles. They have an eFG% of 47.7 after 1 dribble, and 45.2 after 2 dribbles; both are last in the league. Obviously, you can pull-up after any number of dribbles, but the Kings seem to make really poor decisions about when to shoot. I think the eye test can confirm the Kings players passed up way too many wide open catch and shoot opportunities so they can dribble a couple of times, then take an ill-advised pull-up jumper. Maybe this isn’t a scheme thing, but the players in the scheme still choose to take bad shots over good shots.

    Late FG attempts: The quicker you shoot your shot, the better the chance you make your shot. Here’s the eFG% leader for each category of shot by time left:
    Very Early (22-18 sec.): 69%
    Early (18-15 sec.): 61.9%
    Average (15-7 sec.): 58.6%
    Late (7-4 sec.): 59.1%
    Very Late (4-0 sec.): 47.7%

    The Kings take the most late FGA attempts per game with a eFG% of 49.7 (#23). The Kings take the 5th most very late FGA per game with a eFG% of 43.1 (#19). So they take a ton of late or very late shots, and are way below average at converting those shots to points.

    Too many Post-ups: contrary to popular belief, posting up isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Its just that the results are mostly bad when the Kings post up. The Kings are 5th it post-ups per game, but they’re 22nd in post-up FG%. They are average (14th) at generating assist from post-ups though.

    Taking the wrong shots in the paint: The Kings are 4th in the NBA in FGA in the paint, but they’re 27th in FG% in the paint. This is because they don’t take a lot of shots close to the rim. There are only 3 teams that have less FGA within 5 feet of the rim. However, the Kings take the most shots 5-9 feet away from the hoop. To compound that, the Kings have the worst FG% on shots 5-9 feet from the hoop (37.1%). This is probably the stat that stands out the most. So they take very few high percentage paint shots, and a ton of low percentage paint shots.

    In summation, the Kings take a ton of bad shots, and suck at making them. The Kings take very few good shots, but are great at making them. This can’t all be blamed on scheme. But, the job of the coach is to put his players in the best position to succeed. So far this season, he’s failed miserably.

    agreed to part ways, my ass!

    *actually I was wrong
    (BUDDY)He’s actually 64th in 3PA. I thought I clicked to the 3rd page at nba.com, but it was actually the second page.

    (but I still think the point remains that one of the best 3PT shooters in the league shouldn’t be on the second page of 3PA in the league)

    agreed to part ways, my ass
  14. KingsSelecao

    KingsSelecao Active Member

    WCS and his post game comments are disconcerting. Doesn’t have a clue why the team gets out to slow starts. Has an apathetic, clueless tone. I have noticed this a lot with him in post game interviews.

    I know he had a decent offensive game(half of his points/rebounds in garbage time) and hit a 3 today. But,I am not sure the Kings should be paying him 20mil/5 years. Next year. I think he’s made some improvement this year. But, I just don’t think he’s worth all that.
    gunks likes this.
  15. Sac.1989

    Sac.1989 Well-Known Member

    WCS isn't a leader nor does he have much of a clue. But kid fits in an adequate system and can ball
    gunks likes this.
  16. KingsSelecao

    KingsSelecao Active Member

    But, Is he worth 20 mil a year. That's what his agent will be asking for next year. Would you pay him that?
  17. Kingsfan23

    Kingsfan23 Well-Known Member

    I’m thinking defensively too. It will be easier for him to play 5 while guarding the 5 in an up tempo style, but I think he can be effective in those sets in a faster style too, while emphasizing his speed in the open court
  18. Joshoua

    Joshoua Well-Known Member

    He’s not getting 20mill per year from anyone. And if Giles is the truth would have next year to prove it and Skal can be freed he’d be looking at 15mill per year from us
  19. Tetsujin

    Tetsujin The Game Thread Dude

    Only if he managed to remember them
  20. JCTNKINGFAN

    JCTNKINGFAN Active Member

    Yeah, LOL, I know, that just kills me the way he hunches over, I think he is trying to get his center of gravity lower so he doesn't get shoved around so much. But, I do think he had one of his better games today, and not just the stat line. I thought he didn't look as clueless today, almost like he suspected what was going on.
    VF21 and chief bromden like this.
  21. John Galt

    John Galt Well-Known Member

    never. never ever.
  22. ppine

    ppine Well-Known Member

    The Clippers are a really good interior passing team. Griffin, Reed and what's his name Herrel? were shooting from 4 feet in. That was the game right there.
    The Clippers own the Kings even with a long list of injuries, Doc Rivers understands how to exploit the Kings.

    Willie had some good numbers, but he has trouble doing that with any consistency.
    I am ready to start Bogdan.
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018 at 8:24 AM
  23. dude12

    dude12 Well-Known Member

    I don't buy that the offensive scheme is the problem as much as we need Fox to hit the 3 and long jumpers AND George Hill to actually shoot the damn ball. He passed up so many good looks early and when he goes passive AND Fox is being left wide open and make shots......you get the idea. When Buddy comes in, he can't create enough so they overplay him coming off screens or movement.

    When Fox can make shots, things will open up. Until then, it's going to be a struggle.
    JCTNKINGFAN likes this.
  24. Sac.1989

    Sac.1989 Well-Known Member

    I would have signed cousins to a 200 mil contract in a heartbeat but if we ain't going to pay him, it's a moot point re WCS. Vivek going to save his cap for guards like buddy. I like WCS, end of the day if we don't pay him someone will. A market of 15 mill is about right for WCS but given the fact we have have a real lack of decent young talent at the 4 and 5 means 20 mill is adequate and do'able unless you're happy with ZBo's old man game forever
  25. chief bromden

    chief bromden Well-Known Member

    The cap space of three years ago has evaporated. Willie will not get 15-20 million except from a fool team(probably the Kings lol)
    Joshoua likes this.
  26. Kingster

    Kingster Well-Known Member

    This is what I took away from the game:

    The Clips are up by 20 and Fox still plays D and steals the ball, going in for a layup. The camera quickly pans to the bench and you see Skal up clapping. Hill, on the hand, doesn't move, he doesn't even twitch. He sits there with his head in his hands in the thinker's pose just looking with the same doleful look with which we've become accustomed.

    Fox getting the tip from Griffin. Sorry, but in a game like this you've got to look for something, and I found it to be pretty amazing Fox could get the tip.

    Two guys that the Clipps got from the G League who ripped the Kings interior defense.
    King Baller and ppine like this.
  27. fansinceday1

    fansinceday1 Well-Known Member

    He's not worth what he will be asking but I'll bet anyone the kings will pay it.
  28. kingsboi

    kingsboi Well-Known Member

    at least they don't have to play this team anymore this season, none of these four match ups versus them was a pleasure to watch. Clipps simply own the Kings. Good riddance until next season.
    ppine likes this.
  29. Reverend

    Reverend Member

    Exactly. I was going to say we can always wait to see what the market brings for WCS, although we risk the possibility he decides to bounce to a better opportunity. We have a gluttony of project bigs (not counting the prospect of we may be taking a big in the draft) and I'm not sure Willie would be eager to return to a situation where minutes are not guaranteed and just about every big in that scenario has a higher ceiling than you. He's a great situational big but can he take it to another level to keep someone like say Giles or Ayton from leap frogging him in the rotation and taking his minutes? We shall see.
    Joshoua likes this.
  30. KingsFanSince85

    KingsFanSince85 Well-Known Member

    Hi all. I was fortunate (depending upon how you look at it) to be courtside at today's game. The wife and I traveled down to SoCal this weekend to visit family and they have season tix to the Clips. This was my first ever experience at the Staples Center (the scene of the 2002 crimes).

    While the game wasn't too exciting for us Kings fans, we did have a great time. It's been a while since I've watched a game up that close. I haven't figured out how to upload photos from my smartphone, but I'll share some when I can.
    King Baller and ESP47 like this.

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