[Grades] GRADES vs Knicks 11/11/17

Discussion in 'Kings Rap' started by Tetsujin, Nov 11, 2017.

  1. Tetsujin

    Tetsujin The Game Thread Dude

    if you don’t like that, you don’t like Kings basketball!

    Bogdan Bogdanovic () --

    Zach Randolph () --

    Willie Cauley-Stein () --

    Garrett Temple () --

    George Hill () --

    Last edited: Nov 12, 2017
  2. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    players who played well:

    players who were watchable:

    don't get misleaded by Skal's statline. played horribly for the first 3 quarters and padded his stats in the 4th when we gave up

    THIS is why I can't take Willie seriously. He's the most frustrating and inconsistent King player. Any time he has a good game, you wonder how much longer until he reverts back to his old unmotivated self. I'd have less problems with Willie if he were being advertised as a role player off the bench. But as a future franchise PF/C? nope.
    Nokidding and kingsfan1984 like this.
  3. KingsSelecao

    KingsSelecao Active Member

    B+: Hield: Another solid performance in relief. Played within himself. Proud of his offensive firepower Had issues on D with Lee and Dotson.
    C+: Koufas: Another lunch pail performance. Score could have been worse without his boards
    C+: Bogdan: Came out of the gates looking sharp. Disappeared the remainder of the game. Also had issues with the Knicks speedy SG's
    C-: Fox: Solid Defensive effort. Tepid Offensive performance.
    C-: Temple: Usual Stalwart D.
    D+: Skal: Alot his production came when the game was out of reach. Played horrible in the first half
    D+: Mason: Hit a couple shot in garbage time.
    D: Jackson: Couldn't his anything tonight.
    F: Randolph: 6 pts and 3 boards in 20. Was completely hammered by the much quicker and unstoppable Porzingas(Easily The Next Dirk)
    F: Hill: Hit a 3 in the first few minutes of the game and then went home after that.
    F: WCS: Kanter outplayed him and that's sad.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 13, 2017
    New Era and John Galt like this.
  4. Section 101

    Section 101 Well-Known Member

    Welcome millennials to the NBA.
    VF21 likes this.
  5. c-webb1s#1

    c-webb1s#1 Well-Known Member

    My biggest problem with Willie is that I honestly don't believe he loves to play basketball. I think he just got pushed down that road by everyone around him. Now that's fine for him, but as a fan....well...I wish he was a bit more fiery. He can't keep up this routine of playing great one game then disappearing for the next 5 or 6. At least do something productive like rebound or block some shots!
    Kingster likes this.
  6. King Baller

    King Baller Well-Known Member

    Willie played good defense on the Unicorn. He got in foul trouble but it appeared to me the Refs were not allowing much contact in this game.. When Willie went out KP lit it up.
  7. ppine

    ppine Well-Known Member

    A lot of the Kings players are still kids. They haven't been anywhere. They aren't old enough to have graduated from college. Then they land in NYC and play in Madison Square Garden. It is intimidating. Their confidence got tested and they failed. That is no surprise. The Kings will have a chance against the Knicks at Golden 1, but KP and even Kanter overwhelmed Willie, Skal and KK. Courtney Lee was a wake up call for the back court. It is inevitable that the Kings' will read their press clippings and get confused by their success. They will take games off, get intimidated, and then bounce back. I like the character of the new Kings. They will be okay.
    MizzouKing, King Baller and thingfish like this.
  8. Kingster

    Kingster Well-Known Member

    It's time to watch the Philly and Thunder games on your DVR.:)

    Forget this game and move onto the Wizards and hope that the Kings' players actually learned something from the beat-down given to them earlier by the Wiz.
    King Baller likes this.
  9. kingsboi

    kingsboi Well-Known Member

    his number one passion may be art for all we know
    kingsfan1984 likes this.
  10. jcassio

    jcassio Well-Known Member

    Why don't you just give them all F- grades and be done with it? Really feel like you're not contributing here. How about upping your game?
  11. Larry89

    Larry89 Disgruntled Kings Fan

  12. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    lmao he played next to Cousins too. Porzingis had to play 2nd fiddle to Carmelo. WCS is delusionalllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
    kingjatt likes this.
  13. parker

    parker Well-Known Member

    I didn't like the way this game set up from the beginning. Kings have a late Thursday game and then get on a cross country flight the next day. Not sure when they got in, but anyone who travels west to East can tell you that first night you aren't going to get much sleep. Then there is what feels like an early game on Saturday.

    Hopefully, they have more energy on Monday or Wednesday.
    ppine likes this.
  14. John Galt

    John Galt Well-Known Member

    He needs advice on what to say - so he won’t look like an idiot. Seriously.
    Kingster likes this.
  15. sactowndog

    sactowndog Active Member

    Okay we got hammered. What grades would you expect they get?
    206Fan and SLAB like this.
  16. Suicide King

    Suicide King Well-Known Member

    I had things to say, but I realized the words would have been moot.

    This was an ugly game. To me, the onus facing the fans, the players and franchise is "How not to point fingers while we go through this stone age of basketball without knowing everything"
  17. biltalent

    biltalent Well-Known Member

    If you think he is delusional, check this out (same article, Wcs speaking of Porzingis):
    “Offensively, I gotta get to the point that I’m just going at dudes like him. Guarding him, and then watching his game, you take away, oh, this is what he’s doing. I have the same body size, the same skill-level, just transfer it over to a game now.
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2017
    kingjatt, Kingster and kingsfan1984 like this.
  18. jcassio

    jcassio Well-Known Member

    OK, so you're saying this is situational, that because we got hammered in this game, he gave bad grades? Maybe you're just not paying attention.
  19. SLAB

    SLAB Well-Known Member

    Hahahaha hahahah hahaha hahahahahahahahaha

    Willie... just stop.

    JCTNKINGFAN Active Member

    I thought Willie started out playing pretty good defense on Porzingis, especially the 1st quarter. Willie went out of the 1st quarter at the 4:11 minute mark. During those 7 minutes 49 seconds, Porzingis scored 5 points on 2 for 5 shooting (1/1 3p), no rebounds, no assists, 1 block. After Willie went out, in the next 4:11 seconds left in the quarter, Porzingis scored 11 points on 3 of 4 fg (2/2 3p) and 3 of 3 ft. Both players started the 2nd quarter on the bench. Porzingis came in at the 5:30 mark and scored a basket in less than a minute. The Kings took a TO at the 4:29 mark and also inserted WCS back in. Until the 2:41 mark, Porzingis did not score again, missing his only fg attempt. After that it went down hill with the foul trouble. WCS was whistled for his 2nd foul at the 2:41 mark and Porzingis made both ft. At the 1:04 mark, Willie got his 3rd foul (apparently on Ntilikina) and then at the 0:47 mark he got his 4th foul, Porzingis made both ft and then followed that up with a fg at the 0:19 mark. Porzingis scored 24 points in the first half, but only 11 of those while he and Willie were on the floor at the same time.

    I am not going to complain about the officiating, it was pretty much standard NBA, little bit of home court calls and it sure looked like they were giving Porzingis the super star treatment, not allowed to touch him. But, one of Willie’s calls was totally bogus, they just missed the call. I’m not sure, now, if it was the 3rd or 4th, but the nearest player he was close to was Hill. It looked like Hill might have been guilty of the push, but they stuck it on Willie. I played it over half a dozen times on the DVR and never could see where Willie touched any Knick player. Also, an earlier foul, there was contact between Porzingis and Willie and Porzingis dropped his shoulder and gave a forearm shove. There was contact and I have seen that call go the other way, it’s about a 50/50, but you’re not going to get that call on the road. I’m not sure why Joerger chose to leave Willie in once he got his 3rd foul with a minute left in the half, maybe he wasn’t able to get anybody in time. After that, Willie’s defense was pretty much handicapped starting the 4th quarter with 4 fouls and he played only 4 minutes and 22 seconds before picking up his 5th foul with Porzingis scoring 6 points (2/4 fg, 1/1 3p, 1/1 ft). Porzingis scored 17 points while he and Willie shared the floor (he wasn’t always Willie’s responsibility) for 16:40, but he got 10 of those points after Willie was saddled with his 4th foul. He also scored 17 points while Willie was off the court, in 10 minutes and 37 seconds, so it doesn’t look like anybody else had any success against him either. If anybody thought WCS was going to be able to shutdown Porzingis they are sadly delusional, nobody has been able to shut him down, yet this season, hence the 30-point average. You can only hope to contain him and that requires good team defense, something this team has not developed yet. I saw very little help on Porzingis.

    As for the stoner comments and weed comments, I find those in poor taste and border line defamatory. You’re implying that an employee is incapacitated in the work place because of the ingestion of an illegal (or at least forbidden) substance. I realize it’s a message board and it’s ok for posters to hide behind their anonymity to defame well known individuals because they are famous and rich, but I don’t find it amusing. I am not aware of any NBA testing, reports, arrest records, or any information at all that Willie has a problem with “weed” or anything even associating him with it. Willie seems to be a magnet for negative comments because of his “lifestyle”, the hair, the tats, the fashion, he likes art, the free spirit, all those “evil” things, seems like there is some bigotry there, not uncommon in these times.

    Willie has a lot of things to continue to work on, managing his fouls when going up against a stud like Porzingis for one. But every player on this team has a lot to work on. It’s a rebuild! With a bunch of young inexperienced players, even the vets are struggling. This is what a rebuild is like. Enjoy the occasional game where they seem to put it together, there will not be many for a while. Nobody looked particularly good on the team during this game. The team defense was terrible.

    It seems there are a lot of posters who still don’t understand what a rebuild is. It also seems there are some posters who live for the negative, they seem revel in King’s losses and bad play during the rebuild so they can spew their negativity on here. I guess that is what the ignore button is for, I just hate to use it.
  21. Ugolino

    Ugolino Active Member

    Like your comment contributed anything, how about upping your game?
  22. Kingster

    Kingster Well-Known Member

    Not a smart guy. If Vlade likes smarts, I have my doubts he re-signs this guy.
  23. Kingster

    Kingster Well-Known Member

    I discriminate constantly on this board against laziness and stupidity and WCS fits that bill.
    I totally am discriminating against WCS. I'm a bigot against laziness and stupidity and I discriminate accordingly. And by the way, if WCS would rebound like a young Dennis Rodman do you really think that he would get the negative tat comments? Hardly. You'd probably see huge swaths of the Kings' fans at the stadium tatted from head to toe, just like the Houston fans with fake Harden beards.
    ppine, kingjatt and SLAB like this.
  24. Telemachus

    Telemachus Well-Known Member

    There is a big difference between criticizing a player for not rebounding (or being lazy) than accusing him of playing stoned.
    parker and Russell Pimphustler like this.
  25. KingsFanGER

    KingsFanGER Well-Known Member

    Your analysis of the Porzingis vs Willie matchup was an interesting read. I haven't watched the game yet, so I can't contribute much to the debate of the matchup.

    But I disagree, that people turn on Willie, because he loves art or has tatoos or weird hairdos. I think it's more the notion, that Willie claimed in several interviews, that now that DMC is gone, he is going to be a leader of this team, or that he thinks of himself of a 20 and 10 guy or now, that he thinks, he has the same skill-level as Porzingis.
    Bajaden is perfectly right, when he says, that you shouldn't blame someone, for wanting to become the best possible version of themselves, for dreaming big or for refusing to settle in a role, just because people think it suits your skills. Nobody should blame Willie for wanting to be more than a defensive role player.
    But when you repeatedly talk a big game and don't follow it up with giving at least visible full effort, people will give you flak for it.
    And let's be honest - so far Willie hasn't lived up to any of the expectations. He isn't a good defender, not a good rebounder and not a good offensive player. That's sadly the reality. And while it's true, that Willie often is caught in 1vs2 situations on D, that he needs to step out all the way to the 3 point line or that he needs to cut off penetration and leave his man, that's just regular big man stuff. It's not like Willie is the only guy in the league forced to do that. Those things mentioned pretty much sum up the big man position on D in todays NBA.

    I will ask a little provocative question. When we take off the KIngs coloured glasses and try to be brutally honest, is there a reason to pick Willie over other super athletic bigs like Eric Moreland, Daniel Theis or Pascal Siakam? Now Willie is a legit 7 footer, but that's pretty much all he has over those guys right now.

    Or if you think comparing Willie with guys like Siakam or Theis is wrong, why not take a look at bigger guys like Baynes or Nogeira? Heck if we are talking about production alone and leave out potential, why pick Willie over Kosta? Because once again, that's the reality. Willie is playing 24 minutes on a team, that fields a big man squad of Zbo, Kosta and Skal and the guy, that would have a point, when complaining about lack of minutes is Kosta Koufos.

    Now I get it - with Willie it's still about potential. But in the NBA every player has potential. Every guy on an NBA roster is a great basketball player, able to do things in practice, we average people can only dream off. In the end it's about the production on the court during the games. Willie is right - he has the be more aggressive. Maybe he finally gets it.
    BEcause what makes Willie easily the most frustrating King to watch right now, is that every once in a while, he will suddenly flash his real skill level and make plays, that leave me in awe. Suddenly he is able to move laterally like a guard, suddenly he is able to rebound out of his area and suddenly he shows spin moves or up and unders, that are way too quick for his opponent.
    But every once in a while isn't enough, when every guy trying to take your spot is talented beyond believe and is willing to bust his tail off.
    Willie has to bring it every night and he has to do it now.
    kamlooper, kingjatt and 206Fan like this.
  26. sactowndog

    sactowndog Active Member

    No I get perhaps he has been negative but this game is not an example of being unfairly so.
  27. sactowndog

    sactowndog Active Member

    Well I’m new here but isn’t the point of a grades thread to grade the players? And in an “ugly game” aren’t those grades likely to be low? I’m not sure grading a game is pointing fingers. No one on the team walked off that floor with an A plus game and could say it’s the other guys fault.
    Suicide King likes this.
  28. Suicide King

    Suicide King Well-Known Member

    My apologies but I wasn't exactly referring to anyone in particular or any grades. My point was that it's very early in a rebuild, and unfortunately ugly games are going to be part of that rebuild.

    JCTNKINGFAN Active Member

    Long winded reply, but I hope I covered your points:

    Oh, I get frustrated with Willie, too, because he has so much potential. However, I take issue with the constant refrain that he is not trying. There was a lot of comment on the board last year that he was lazy and not working, but Kayte and some of the others in some of the pregame stuff put that to rest by talking and showing how hard he was working. It’s the NBA, it’s hard.

    Willie did not play much basketball until very late, he was more into football. He was supposed to be a project at Kentucky. If you could see how much he has progressed since then you old be amazed. Calipari did not really develop him, Cal has the one and done mind set, and once Willie’s potential showed, Cal played to Willie’s strength as a rim protector and P&R, nothing else, because with Cal it is get them noticed by the NBA and get a contract and move on. Play their strengths, hide their weaknesses, there isn’t time for a whole lot of development, plus it’s college with limited practice time. Most people thought he would leave after his freshman year and go late first round or more probably early 2nd round. But he came back, but with UK, there is always a new incoming class of one and done, so it was pretty much the same deal, showcase his strengths, hide his weaknesses, he will definitely be gone after year two. But he had a foot injury and he came back again even though he was projected as a definite 1st rounder, although I think he would have come back anyway. But again, there was always new guys to showcase, Karl Anthony Townes in particular, so still no real development of Willie, Cal had him doing the same things he did as a freshman, albeit pretty well.

    Then Willie comes to the Kings (or the Kangz) and the dysfunction that was here 3 years ago with coach Karl (whether that was all Karl is certainly debatable) who used him in a limited manner doing pretty much the same things Cal had him doing. After that mess, the following year a new coach, new system, Joerger did not play the youngsters because his mandate was to make the playoffs, that is, until, Cuz was traded. Then Willie was given more playing time and we started to see glimpses of the potential. We actually started to see some of it before the trade. Joerger started working him into the rotation more. Then comes this year, the blowup and rebuild, bunch of new team mates, basically a reboot again. Nobody looks good consistently right now.

    Willie needs to bring more energy, but so does everybody on the team. I am not sure what the deal is there, but it seems to be a team wide phenomenon. Also, sometimes I think people confuse frenetic with energy. Willie is very smooth, nothing herky-jerky about him. I had a young cousin who played baseball, centerfield, and he was tall and lanky and very smooth. He glided to the ball, didn’t look like he was putting much effort into it, but he caught almost everything hit his way and very few balls got by him. Another boy on the team played center field some and he was all in motion and herky-jerky, always diving for balls (that he didn’t get), flopping around and all the parents talked about how good he was even though he didn’t get to a lot of balls, but they loved “the effort”. The coaches mostly played Drew because they knew he got to all the balls he should.

    I though Willie brought pretty good controlled energy to the Knick game, at least in the 1st quarter. Then everybody got steamrolled. The team defense is terrible for the most part, Willie tries to cover too much ground, which leaves his man open when he switches. Time and time again, I see Willie start out on his man, switch off on another and then wind up trying to close out on the 3-point shooter. Willie needs to learn how to guard 3 men at once better.

    As for Willie’s comments, that is Willie, you ask him a question, you get a straight answer, exactly what is on his mind. Willie thinks he can be as good as Porzingis, that is what he will tell you. He needs that confidence, although for the public relations part, it might be better if he did the “aw shucks” politically correct thing. Willie is trying to grow into a leadership role, that is hard work, too.

    As far as draft picks, hind sight is always 20/20, I’m sure Portland would take Michael Jordan a 1000 time over Sam Bowie if they had it to do over again.

    And I have to disagree with you about “people not turning on Willie, because he loves art or has tatoos or weird hairdos” because in this very thread there are at least 3 comments, one calling him a stoner, another suggesting he is high on weed, and then a comment about his love of art. None of which has anything to do with his performance (unless they really have some evidence that he is playing high). Anytime there is a thread about Willie, you will see those comments by the same cast of characters. I believe the stoner and weed references are more about his free-spirited ways, being different than any real concern there.

    There is a complete lack of patience on the board right now, this rebuild is not a just a few weeks and then the team will be playing for a playoff spot. That is completely delusional for the people that have that mind set. The rebuild will be measured in years not weeks. Patience for the team, for the individual players, and the coaching staff is going to be required. There will be some good nights, some good performances and there will be regressions. More regressions than good performances for the foreseeable future. Personally, I believe it will be year 3 of the rebuild before this team becomes competitive, but I also think it has a chance to become something special.
  30. VF21

    VF21 #KingsFansForever Staff Member Contributor

    MOD NOTE: It has never been the rule around here to allow those kinds of comments. If you use the "report" feature, then they can be dealt with.

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