2018 draft fits with this team

Discussion in 'Personnel moves' started by sactowndog, Nov 13, 2017.

  1. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    If the Kings took Ayton, and WCS continues to improve, then I think we would trade Willie. I don't think he fetches anything in the top 10 because he's about to become a RFA. By then, I don't think Porter Jr would be available. Miles or Mikal, maybe.

    Fox
    Bogdanovic
    Miles
    ?
    Ayton

    Kings would just need to find a stretch 4 somewhere. You hold Fox to a high praise, so something to think about would be fit. I think Fox and Ayton can play together, but Ayton is a 1/2 court player, while Fox isn't. Fox's game is speed, speed, speed, and more speed. Meanwhile, Ayton is more like LaMarcus Aldride in terms of tempo. If you're pegging Fox as some type of 10+year All-Star, then the fit would be concerning. For me, Ayton would be the star, while Fox would be in the role of your 3rd best player. I'd have no problem pairing the two together, just as long as Ayton is the center piece. If you make Fox the center piece, Ayton wouldn't be the best fit.

    If the Kings truly see Fox as our franchise player, then Marvin Bagley would make a lot more sense. In that case, I don't think you would need to trade Willie.
    kingsfan1984 likes this.
  2. Joshoua

    Joshoua Well-Known Member

    Even if this were true you still keep Fox too many minutes nobody outside the top 5 in this draft will be better.

    You start
    Doncic-Buddy-Bogdan-WCS and than have Fox lead the bench
  3. Joshoua

    Joshoua Well-Known Member



    This kid is simply amazing and he’s a great rebounder with elite IQ that’s a superstar right there
  4. sactowndog

    sactowndog Active Member

    If the Kings are at 2-3 and the Celtics are at 4-5 it could be a very interesting development. The Celtics I think would want Ayton and might make an interesting offer to the Kings to get him. The question is would we take it to move down a couple slots?
  5. Suicide King

    Suicide King Well-Known Member

    I haven't gotten to watch Ayton. How well does he run in transition? If our faster players ( Fox, Mason, WCS, etc) have to slow the pace down do you think he is still worth it?

    To wit: I don't believe the style of BB we play now is what Vlade and even Joerger envision 2-3+ years from now after the current training wheels ( Z-Bo, Hill) are removed. I think as early as next season we will see a much quicker style of offense and I am wondering if we would be going from one lumbering big in Zach to another in Ayton. Slower bigs won't cut it anymore unless maybe paired with AD, and the jury is still out on that one.
  6. Joshoua

    Joshoua Well-Known Member

    He’s fast and gets up and down the floor quick his weakness is his defense he’s mediocre
  7. KingsSelecao

    KingsSelecao Active Member

    It's hard to forecast anything with this team. If Joerger is going to be here for awhile, then Ayton perfectly fits his system. In fact, Joerger is probably salivating at the thought. Then again, I would be really shocked if Joerger is here 3 years from now. Really shocked. The same with Vlade. For a team that has zero and I mean zero track record for stability. Maybe, it's in the process of changing. But, as long at Vivek is at the helm, I have a suspicion, it won't anytime soon.

    Regardless, Team needs to draft for talent, not need. From what I see, Kings have some nice pieces.But, no real Stars. Whoever is there when they pick: Porter, Bagley, Doncic, Ayton. They just have to take the one with most All Star potential. Worry about the rest later.
  8. sactowndog

    sactowndog Active Member

    If Porter’s back wasn’t messed up he was a great fit with us. But disk problems are scary as they can reoccur. I wonder about Jaren Jackson at Michigan State.
  9. Suicide King

    Suicide King Well-Known Member

    Agree on both counts. He looked very promising. Hopefully ( for him and whoever drafts him) he will make a full recovery. As someone with chronic spinal issues for 20+ years, I can relate to how devastating it can be. Ruined my life. edit: up to now.
  10. sactowndog

    sactowndog Active Member

    I have been intrigued by Bagley but he struggles to shoot. A .602 free throw percentage is horrendous.

    Jackson by contrast shoots .440 from 3 and .818 from the line.
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018 at 12:20 AM
  11. Suicide King

    Suicide King Well-Known Member

    Thank you. I had heard all the praise along with the poor defense about Ayton. Never seen any mention of his transition game.
  12. Tetsujin

    Tetsujin The Game Thread Dude

    .602 isn't fantastic by any means but it certainly isn't an abomination for a big man. C-Webb was a career .649 free throw shooter and Tim Duncan a .696 and it didn't really cause them too many problems.

    Bagley's not even going to be 19 until March. He's got plenty of time to work on his shot before he calls it a career and you simply can't teach his combination of length and agility.
  13. sactowndog

    sactowndog Active Member

    Yes but in a game where big men are asked to stretch the floor it indicates a problem. Poor free throw shooting is a significant indicator of shooting problems in the pros
  14. Tetsujin

    Tetsujin The Game Thread Dude

    Only if you're anticipating your draft pick never developing. In the modern NBA, stretch forwards are more important than they used to be but (a) Bagley's big enough to see some time at the 5, (b) the fact that he's been annihilating opponents based on his sheer latent talent alone should be more encouraging than the lack of skill should be discouraging, (c) it's not like he's been T-Rob out there.

    Players develop and it's not like Bagley's stroke is Lonzo-level broken or anything. With player development being as important as it is in the modern league, you don't draft a guy based on what his numbers tell you this season, you draft him based on what you think you can mould him into in five seasons and aside from maybe Ayton, Bagley's got the highest ceiling in the draft.
  15. kingsfan1984

    kingsfan1984 Well-Known Member


    Isn't stem cell therapy completely changing the narrative on issues like this?
  16. kingsfan1984

    kingsfan1984 Well-Known Member

    I wouldn't be surprised if the big man that leads to the most wins turns out t be Jackson. His skills compliment a wide variety of other player types. His instincts for blocks indicate a natural defensive feel. His touch at the 3pt line is fantastic. With the size and strength to be a solid rebounder. Id be temtoed to take him over Ayton at this point. Id certainly look to do a D Ainge move and trade back a spot if I was looking at Ayton draft night and snag Jackson plus future 1st or 2 in the process.
    Joshoua likes this.
  17. ESP47

    ESP47 Well-Known Member

    Ayton and Bagley scare me a bit, not because I don't think they're talented, but I just don't see big men having the same impact that they used to. Most of the best teams are ran by the guards with big men that play defense and catch lobs. Ayton would have to turn out like Embiid to have the same sort of impact that Doncic and Porter might possibly have. I don't think Ayton will ever be as good as Embiid because Embiid is a much better defender and was 3x the defender as Ayton at the same age. I'll be curious to see what happens.

    You'd have to give up another piece with WCS to get a pick that high and I'm not talking Malachi or someone like that. It would have to be one of our better prospects. I'm not sure we have the depth or trade pieces to do it.

    It's all going to depend on Fox's shot from here going forward. I agree that the Bridges would 9/10 be a better fit with Doncic than Fox but Fox is a much more talented prospect than they are so you'd kind of be losing value by trading him for one of them. Which is why I proposed the trade, to see if people would be willing to lose talent for fit when you now have an even better talent running the show.
  18. Folsomkingsfan

    Folsomkingsfan Active Member

    Suppose we get the 3rd pick and Ayton and Bagley are both off of the board, do you go Trae Young knowing that it most likely pushes Fox to the bench or out of Sac altogether, or do you go Doncic or maybe even Porter?
  19. Joshoua

    Joshoua Well-Known Member

    Doncic is going 1 so if he’s there at 3 he’ll be taken instantly. There’s absolutely no way he drops out of the top 2 though
  20. Joshoua

    Joshoua Well-Known Member

    Bagley, Doncic, Ayton, and Young will all be stars and I’m more sure on Doncic and Bagley. We need to be in the top 4 either on of those guys fit with Young being the worst fit but since he’s a perfect fit with Orlando I can see a draft trade with us to get one of the other guys.

    Also I stand by it Jarren Jackson is the best defender in the draft and it’s not close 6 blocked shots again.

    My draft board right now would be

    1. Doncic- he’ll be a 20-6-5 guy
    2. Bagley- 20-10 guy he has that “it” factor
    3. Ayton-
    4. Young- Has nba game great passer/shooter
    5. Porter
    6. Jackson- Elite defender with a great shot
    kingsfan1984 likes this.
  21. Suicide King

    Suicide King Well-Known Member

    If your speaking for athletes, yes I believe so. If you mean for myself, I have not had the best medical help with my issues. ( read: poor)
  22. SacTownKid

    SacTownKid Well-Known Member


    I like Fox's potential as much or more than Young. Young could be a really good player, but he looks like a AI type who is going to need a lot of shots to pay off. I get the Curry comps but he's not Steph Curry, he's different. He's also smaller. If you are a small PG and you aren't elite defensively the results are mixed on how far you can take a team.
  23. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    I personally have Doncic and Porter Jr ahead of Young. I think we'd take them over Young since we already have Fox who the Kings see as our franchise PG.
  24. Čarolija

    Čarolija Well-Known Member

    I think the game is cyclical. Big men don’t have the impact because there is lack of quality big men around. Take a look back at the 90s and the amount of quality big men that were around.

    Good team play to their strengths. No one is going to overlook a young Shaq because he is not a modern game stretch big. With the lack of quality big men around, league has gone smaller but those that have quality big men is the lack of talent that they surrounded the bif man with. If Embiid stays healthy, he will cause that many headaches that teams will look for a big men that can go with him in play off series.

    If I can get a franchise level big men, I am getting him and changing the league. Ayton could be a franchise big. Cousins was a poopoo defender coming into the league but he turned into a good defender. Ayton won’t be a Mutambo like defender but he can be good enough and if you pair him with a good defender at PF you have done well. Offensively, he will be more than fine. The shot will improve and stretch out to 3 just like Cousins has stretched it out to the point where he shoots it TOO much.

    It’s way to early to look at the fit for this team. Get the best talent first and foremost, then look at the position of need and then you work out the fit later. These guys are developing and by the time they are finished products, they will be different players to what they are now. Fox in year 1 and Fox in year 4 will be two very different players.
    Tetsujin likes this.
  25. Folsomkingsfan

    Folsomkingsfan Active Member

    I definitely have doncic over young, but do you take a guy who now has some medical red flags over a guy who can pull up off the dribble from anywhere within half court?
  26. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    You can't go five minutes without trying to trade Willie, can you? Ridiculous!
  27. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    The question isn't should we draft Young because we already have Fox, it's, is Young better than Doncic and/or Porter? If not, then you draft either Doncic or Porter, but if you think Young is the best player, then you take him regardless. You should always take the best player on the board regardless of position.
  28. CelticsFan

    CelticsFan Well-Known Member

    NBA TV had the replay of the Real Madrid game against Moscow from 1/12/18 on today. I only caught the last 10 mins of the game but Doncic's athleticism concerns me.
  29. Joshoua

    Joshoua Well-Known Member

    Same was said about Bogdan and his athleticism is fine and Doncic I believe is a little better of an athlete.



    Agreed,if we are at 5 and Young is there I’m rushing to the stage he has star potential. Take him start Young/Bogdan have Fox/Buddy lead the bench
    kingsfan1984 likes this.
  30. KingsSelecao

    KingsSelecao Active Member

    I am not really sold on WCS. Can he can start playing a consistent 18/10 the rest of the year? If not, the Kings need to be looking at the draft, trade, or free agency for a big.

    People claim Kings have all these Bigs. None, are dominant or game changers. From what I see currently.

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