2018 draft fits with this team

Discussion in 'Personnel moves' started by sactowndog, Nov 13, 2017.

  1. Jimbob

    Jimbob Well-Known Member

    In this thread I have seen Marvin Bagley described as a hybrid PF/C, however I have also read that his skill set resembles Lamar Odoms. In my opinion Odom was best suited as a SF, which makes me intrigued especially with Porter out for the year.
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2017
  2. Dime Dropper

    Dime Dropper Well-Known Member

    He is nowhere near as good a passer as Odom, but he is probably a better athlete and scorer. He is very talented and I think he'll be a big SF at the next level, although he could really play anywhere from 3-5 in certain situations with the way the league is going.

    I'd still take Ayton over him, and possibly Doncic, but Bagley is really growing on me. He's been putting up numbers from the start but for some reason I wasn't sky high on him. He was pretty awesome against a good Texas team though. And it's hard to deny his physical traits, rebounding and knack for scoring.

    We really need to get a top 5 pick in this draft. Any one of Ayton/Doncic/Bagley/Porter/Bamba and we can't really go wrong. I know Bamba is quite raw, but with his size, skillset and athleticism, I don't see any way he is not a very, very good player within four years of being in the league, barring injury.
    Jimbob likes this.
  3. Folsomkingsfan

    Folsomkingsfan Active Member

    I don't know about bagley. Great player but his numbers are really inflated by being on a great duke team that moves the ball as good as any college team you'll see. A ton of his points come from him just standing near the hoop and being the recipient of good ball movement. He doesn't really do much on his own. I'll gladly take him if ayton, sonic, and porter are off the board. But I don' want to reach on him just because duke is making him look better than he actually is.
  4. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    AD was extremely limited in his first few years as a creator. He was just a bouncy off-ball player always at the right places. Bagley is that type of player too.
  5. SacTownKid

    SacTownKid Well-Known Member

    I think Bagley is everything that NBA scouts hoped Jahlil Okafor could be. Bagley has more potential outside the box but he's very much an interior post big right now. That's Duke style obviously and he may be able to branch out but he's a PF version of Okafor with better athletic ability and better ball skills.
  6. SacTownKid

    SacTownKid Well-Known Member

    He does do a lot of his work on the box. He's a terrific one on one post up player. Which is both good and bad maybe. The question is whether he can still create in the post against bigger defenders. The positive is that if he can develop an outside driving game he'll be a match up nightmare for opposing bigs.

    I like Doncic I'm not sure about his fit with the team. He is so similar to Bogdan. With Fox, Buddy, and Bogdan here it would mean at least two of those four are playing with only 50% of their talents being utilized. The Kings are desperate for someone that has a physical presence or someone that brings some athletic intangibles into the equation IMO. You have to find players that can run with Fox, not that are looking to run a team.
  7. Jimbob

    Jimbob Well-Known Member

    I wish I had caught the Duke vs Texas game. I only watched highlights but it looked like a classic. My takeaway was regardless if Bagley is a 3, 4 , or 5, I would love to see him a future King and would trade one of our potential players if need be to make it work.
  8. Entity

    Entity Well-Known Member

    I would trade Fox for Colin Sexton today.
  9. Folsomkingsfan

    Folsomkingsfan Active Member

    I'm not a big fan of that comparison. Ad wasn't recruited so heavily and drafted first overall because of his offensive game. It's because he had an 8 foot wingspan and his unmatched defensive instincts. I'm pretty sure he averaged 5 blocks a game at kentucky. In fact the one argument people had against him was his limited offensive game that relied too heavily on others to get him open looks near the basket. People werent even sure if he would develop an offensive game. The fact that he did was just gravy for the pelicans. Bagley doesn' have the other skills that ad did. If he doesn' develop an offensive game beyond what it is now it will limit his effectiveness as an nba player.
  10. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    I think it's incorrect to say he doesn't have an offensive game. Bagley has very good touch around the rim. He knows how to play above the rim with space. He has a great motor. At worst, I see him as a Kenneth Faried. On defense, you're also understating his effectiveness. Switching int he NBA is extremely important in today's game. Bagley has quickness to check guards.
    Tetsujin likes this.
  11. Folsomkingsfan

    Folsomkingsfan Active Member

    I never once said he doesn't have an offensive game. He has a solid offensive game. I just think that playing on dukes very pass happy team makes it look better than it is. I also never said he was a bad defender. He just isn't on ads level or even close to it really.
  12. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    AD was highly recruited and was considered the number one highschool player in the nation his senior year by many of the scouts. AD went from being a 6'3" guard, to a 6'11" player overnight, and retained all of his guard skills, which he proved his senior year of highschool, and in many of the all star games. Point being, that no one was surprised by how well he played. His one year at Kentucky he averaged 14 points, 10 rebounds and 4.7 blocked shots. The Davis/Bagley comparison isn't a bad one. There are some similarities to their games and both are elite athlete's of similar size. Bagley showed a decent to good jumpshot in highschool, which he hasn't displayed much so far at Duke. I think Bagley might have the most upside than anyone in the top five, but I also think he has the lowest floor of anyone in the top five. I love Bagley's motor which will take him a long way by itself. \

    I'm not ready to anoint Ayton just yet. Lets see if he comes back down to earth. By the way, how in the hell did Arizona manage to lose three games in a row, two to unranked teams? I'll be shocked if they're still ranked in the top 25 after that.
    kingsfan1984 likes this.
  13. Jimbob

    Jimbob Well-Known Member

    Has Fox hit a premature rookie wall? He was my first choice at 5 so I will hope for the best.
    From what I understand, and I have not seen him play, Sexton has question marks if hes more of a small SG, however, Mitchell had the same concern and damn if I might not redraft Isaac at 5 and Mitchell at 10.
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2017
  14. Entity

    Entity Well-Known Member

    being an Alabama fan I have watched every game. he has vision and distributes the ball. Now often times that shot is missed by his teammates.
    Jimbob likes this.
  15. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    Fox wasn't as polished as some initially assumed. His outside jumper is nearly non-existent right now. Because of that, teams are crowding the paint when he has the ball. He doesn't have enough strength to consistently finish, so he's forced him to settle for a lot of mid-range jumpers a lot. In general, mid-range shots are low percentages.

    The PG draft last year was the strongest since 09, so I had no problem with the Kings taking a PG @ 5. I don't think Fox-Sexton can coexist. Neither have the strength to guard SGs. They're also too ball dominant as both of them are scoring PGs.
  16. Entity

    Entity Well-Known Member

    no im saying trade fox for the pick to get sexton
  17. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    oh. It's way too early for me to do that. I've actually entertained the idea of trading Fox for a top 10 in this upcoming draft. I still think it's way too hard to build around a non-shooting PG. However, it's too early to entertain the idea of trading Fox. He's got a lot of potential in the tank.
  18. Entity

    Entity Well-Known Member

    You should really watch Sexton play. check out the game vs minnesota when alabama on had 3 players playing the last 11:00 of the game Sexton leading the way outscored #14 Minnesota 30-22 in that time
  19. The_Jamal

    The_Jamal Well-Known Member

    I don't think you can do this, unless it's a top 3 pick and we can wrap up one (hopefully 2 with our pick) of Doncic/Ayton/Bagley. Getting more film, those are the 3 I think are the bonafide franchise-changing talents in this draft without too many questions about their potential/game.

    Even then, we aren't building around what Fox does well. Fox needs to get away from the old men (ZBO/Koufos/Temple/Hill) to truly be unleashed and there's still nothing I've seen from him this season to worry about his long-term potential as a future star. Until we see him given the reigns of the offense AND getting him some actual offensive talent (like Mitchell/Ball/DSJ have), trading him for someone like Sexton or Bamba or even Porter is just stupid.

    Just for measure

    Ball has: KCP/Lopez/Ingram/Kuzma/Clarkson
    DSJ has: Barnes/Matthews/Dirk/Barea/Yogi
    Mitchell has: Gobert/Hood/Favors/Rubio/Ingles

    And no one has played well the first 20 games. The other guys just look like it because they get to chuck and control the offense as the lead options.
    Pacboy and Tetsujin like this.
  20. SacTownKid

    SacTownKid Well-Known Member

    Fox is an upside guy. MAJOR upside too. He has physical intangibles and is in a role that isn't really set up for him to shine like a superstar. Give it time. I like Sexton as a prospect, but I wouldn't trade Fox for him straight up right now.
  21. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    Yeah what I was actually thinking was that if the Kings can land a top 3 pick, I'd consider trading Fox for a top 10 pick. I'd do Porter Jr for Fox in a heartbeat if the offer presented itself. Bamba or Sexton? That's something we'd have to revisit in April.

    Fox hasn't worried me too much, mostly because I expected these struggles. However, I want the Kings to hand him the keys. I want to see what he can actually do. This was my biggest George Hill complaint. I need to see if Fox is THAT guy who you can build a franchise around. If he shows superstar potential, then you look at the 2018 draft with in mind who can actually compliment Fox. If he shows that he's not that guy, then you draft someone in 2018 without any consideration of how he fits with Fox.

    Fox is a tricky player. If you want to build around him, then it requires more moving parts. He's a PG without a 3pt shot in this game. Kings need to figure their stuff out on the NBA floor. I'm scared that they'll think Fox is good enough to be a franchise player based on practices instead of actual NBA play. So for the draft, they decide to get Mo Bamba who compliments Fox, but he's not as good as the other guys. 1 year later, if Fox doesn't prove to be the guy, we just moved 3 steps back in our rebuild.

    This is why I think it's ridiculous Joerger insists on running his high-post offense bullpoopoo. I know he's trying to put the young guys through adversity, but we need to actually find out if they're struggling because they're bad, or if they're struggling because they don't understand his offense. I don't think his offense is complex, but it clearly doesn't fit the strengths of our players. PLEASE give Fox the keys.
    biltalent likes this.
  22. kingsboi

    kingsboi Well-Known Member

    or how about drafting Sexton to pair with Fox and have a two headed PG monster out there, Sexton has more pounds on him so you can slide him to the 2
  23. SacTownKid

    SacTownKid Well-Known Member

    I think it's a bad fit. I think a 2 PG look for stretches is OK but you won't go anywhere with it if history is any indication. The Kings lack of success with it under Karl and now Joerger has me already at the point where I've seen enough let alone think it makes any sense to take 2 super high potential PG's and attempt to warp one of them into something they aren't. I will say that Sexton does look a lot like an Iverson type to me. Not a fan of those types at the NBA level either and still best with the ball in his hands.
    206Fan likes this.
  24. kingsboi

    kingsboi Well-Known Member

    well if he is one of those players who has a high usage rate, then the team is better off steering clear since they preach ball movement under Joerger. That said, he isn't a finished product and it will be interesting to see how much he shoots up the draft board come post NCAA tournament if they qualify.
  25. Khanh

    Khanh New Member

    What about Trae Young? Supposedly ncaa next Steph Curry
  26. Tetsujin

    Tetsujin The Game Thread Dude

    Please no one tell Vivek that.

    This team has hard enough time finding time for all its guards as it is.
  27. biltalent

    biltalent Well-Known Member

    I'm still really confused by Joergers offense. Lets look back:
    Start of 2016/2017: Post offense build around Cousins -> makes total sense
    All star break: Cousins trade
    After Cousins trade: change to perimeter offense, mostly 4 out -> makes total sense
    Draft: Fox, strength getting to the rim, weakness shooting
    Start of 2017/2018: back to post offense build around Willie and Zbo??? -> doesnt make sense at all

    In the video of his coaching camp he said something like We could go middle pick and roll every time but we wouldnt be better of 2 years from now. I get what he is thinking but I just dont agree with it. There is a middle ground here. You can manage that every player touches the ball and still play 4 out with lots of space and shooting.

    I also think Divac is at fault here. Instead of bringing back Tyreke, Lawson or Collison and Tolliver, who play the same as Fox, he brings in George Hill and Zbo who are the total opposite type of player. He also does not trade Koufos, leading to a laughable high amount of big man on the roster (We currently have 6) giving Joerger every reason to play big.

    I'm really not that high on Porter as a prospect, but the main reason I like him is that he at least is big enough to play the 4 and space the floor. But knowing Joerger, Porter would probably end up playing the 3 anyways.
    Blob, Gguod, SacTownKid and 1 other person like this.
  28. gunks

    gunks Well-Known Member

    Right? I can't believe people are already talking about trading Fox. I get that he's been pretty garbage, but damn, we drafted him on potential.

    His shot mechanics are fine, he just needs to get in the gym and shoot all day, every day, this summer. And put on some lbs.

    Nevermind that Joerger is running a system that neuters his strengths.
  29. SacTownKid

    SacTownKid Well-Known Member

    Very interesting, and I do understand what he's doing will help the players become more well rounded but it comes to point where even if it ended up being the right system for their young talent (debatable of course) it's whether the muck of failure getting there will been survived by all involved. It's the same trend we've seen year after year with coaches trying to install the triangle offense.

    And I still can't see any way these signings weren't coach picks. I can't see how Randolph would even come here without Joerger being the coach let alone why Vlade would have had him on his radar in the first place. I don't think the signings were terrible but I really must have a different vision of what the word "mentor" means. I see a veteran group supplemented by youth, not the other way around.

    I agree, I think Porter is somewhat overrated, but I think even before the college year began some of that hype started to die down. He'll crush it in workouts though so I wouldn't be surprised to see him go anywhere from 1-3.
  30. Gguod

    Gguod Member

    Great post! Kings are totally lost at the moment. They had perfectly good vets to mentor but they decided to break the bank with couple of new ones letting the others go with cheap contracts. They play a system that is the opposite what the analytics would suggest, system that is compleately opposite that our franchise player needs to play in. We have our future front court with skal and wcs but we start Zbo who looks awful. Our priorities should be getting as good draft pick as possible and develope our young players but we play ton of vets in a system that has no place in todays nba. Just seems like there is no vision.
    biltalent likes this.

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